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Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 21 Feb 2017, 6:12pm
by 3spd
Has anyone got/used the Toliari panniers by Alpkit.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 22 Feb 2017, 6:11pm
by bikes4two
For me, I wouldn't look at these twice due to the clip system - they just clip over the pannier rack - you really need a clip that locks over the pannier rail so that the pannier will not jump off the rail when going over bumpy surfaces.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 22 Feb 2017, 11:19pm
by mjr
You could just carabiner the handle to the rack if it worries you, but I've never had a pannier detach that way, even on rough cycle tracks. Maybe if you go off-roading much, it might be a worry, though.

I wouldn't buy them because I'm pretty sure my rack rails are fatter than 10mm. I'll keep on dropping my Airlok Xtra into other panniers or strapping it to the bike.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 9:09am
by mnichols
I haven't bought the panniers but I've purchased plenty of other stuff from them (including a bike) and it's very good quality and excellent customer service.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 9:18am
by 3spd
I've got Alpkit stuff and have had no problems which tempts me.
The problem I see with the panniers is lack of hook at the bottom meaning having to reach down to fit them.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 11:08am
by foxyrider
3spd wrote:I've got Alpkit stuff and have had no problems which tempts me.
The problem I see with the panniers is lack of hook at the bottom meaning having to reach down to fit them.

Just because some Alpkit is good doesn't mean all of it is.

You don't need to be riding off road to get bags to jump free - a big pot hole, a drop kerb etc can make your bags move substantially. I've had instances of the lower hook becoming detached due to this sort of thing but the bags have remained attached as they have a lock mechanism on the top hooks.

Regardless of brand I wouldn't buy for myself any bags without adjustable, locking top hooks and adjustable lower hooks. I certainly don't want to have to use carabiners or bungees to do a job the bags should be designed for - that need smacks of not fit for purpose.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 11:22am
by mjr
foxyrider wrote:Regardless of brand I wouldn't buy for myself any bags without adjustable, locking top hooks and adjustable lower hooks. I certainly don't want to have to use carabiners or bungees to do a job the bags should be designed for - that need smacks of not fit for purpose.

I know people who have panniers with locking top hooks but they never flip the lock on any more because they feel it's annoying to tip the bike up by lifting the pannier when they forget to unlock. As far as I know, they've never had the pannier bounce off. In the rare occasions where I've seen it happen to anyone on tour, only one hook has unclipped. I've known more racks come unbolted than single panniers bounce off!

I also find lower hooks annoyingly filthy to clip on and too limiting in fore/aft positioning, but I do have an unusually wide range of bike wheelbases. I guess Alpkit have probably researched their market.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 11:32am
by whoof
mjr wrote:You could just carabiner the handle to the rack if it worries you, but I've never had a pannier detach that way, even on rough cycle tracks. Maybe if you go off-roading much, it might be a worry, though.



I have had and have seen others have panniers come off when attached by two top clips and an 'L' shape at the bottom. Speed bumps seem to be just the correct frequency to make this happen. Mrs Whoof has an early Altura Arran pannier with this fitting system and she left her pannier in the road going over a speed bump in South Wales. I've got a slightly newer version with a 'T' lock at the top to prevent disengagement from the rack.

You can modify the pannier but it seems a shame to have to add components to get new gear to work properly.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 11:37am
by pjclinch
mjr wrote:I know people who have panniers with locking top hooks but they never flip the lock on any more because they feel it's annoying to tip the bike up by lifting the pannier when they forget to unlock. As far as I know, they've never had the pannier bounce off. In the rare occasions where I've seen it happen to anyone on tour, only one hook has unclipped. I've known more racks come unbolted than single panniers bounce off!


One of the reasons I've deprecated my old Altura Orkneys is that the R&K hooks on them are a PITA to lock, and on occasions where I haven't bothered to lock them they have bounced off. This is most typically off-road, but has been kerb-hopping etc. too.

One of the reasons I use Ortliebs is that they lock with zero extra faff. To lock, you let go of the handle. To unlock, you pick up the pannier by the handle.

mjr wrote:
I also find lower hooks annoyingly filthy to clip on and too limiting in fore/aft positioning, but I do have an unusually wide range of bike wheelbases. I guess Alpkit have probably researched their market.


Orts score again, with very easily configurable lower retainer hooks that have a lot of fore-aft (as well as up/down, and angle) adjustment.

As far as general build etc., I've always been very happy with my dealings with Alpkit (mostly tent pegs and head-torches, but also some dry-bags and a downie), but that doesn't mean they get everything right. Orts may well cost more, but once bought they'd be at least as easy to use and much more secure.

mjr wrote:You could just carabiner the handle to the rack if it worries you,


Not really the same. That may stop them detaching completely, but wouldn't stop them detaching partially, which might actually be worse. Giiven the choice of crashing with panniers bouncing in and out of my back spokes, or just turning around to pick up my pannier, I think I'd take the latter...

Pete.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 11:44am
by Tangled Metal
I've had the bottom hook of my Ortlieb panniers come off with a pothole to send thw bag flying up before crashing back against the side of the rack. I was glad they had the locking top hooks securely closed. One time it wasn't even a bad bounceb that loosened the bottom hook.

If the Alpkit panniers don't have top locking hooks that's a good enough reason for me to pass on them.

The only annoying thing about Ortlieb are the top hook inserts. They don't stay in place. Such a badly designed insert if it does that so easily. We lost 2 hook inserts over a couple of days touring. 4 panniers so that's a quarter of them falling out to be lost. We had to check the hooks before setting off then huntv around for the inserts that have fallen out. Could easily have lost all inserts that tour.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 11:49am
by mjr
pjclinch wrote:
mjr wrote:You could just carabiner the handle to the rack if it worries you,


Not really the same. That may stop them detaching completely, but wouldn't stop them detaching partially, which might actually be worse. Giiven the choice of crashing with panniers bouncing in and out of my back spokes, or just turning around to pick up my pannier, I think I'd take the latter...

Why can a pannier bounce into your spokes? Don't the rack legs and rigid pannier back make that physically impossible as long as any part of the back is still attached to the top rails? How little clearance have you got between wheel and pannier? Or are Ortleibs not rigid-backed? :eek:

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 12:35pm
by PH
I’ve been bought off in a group by someone’s detached pannier, at a reasonable downhill speed on a bit of rough road, no permanent harm done but not pleasant.
I’ve also seen someone’s pannier go flying through the air after they’d clipped a bollard, though that might have been better than it staying attached, better still if they hadn’t clipped the bollard…
There’s good reason most of the major makes use closed clips, I wouldn’t consider panniers without.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 12:58pm
by mjr
PH wrote:There’s good reason most of the major makes use closed clips, I wouldn’t consider panniers without.

Not sure what "closed clips" are - sound useless for hanging over a rack rail! At a quick look, it seems Ortlieb lock. Basil can lock. Altura it seems some do, some don't and some are a pig (from comments above). Blackburn do but I don't recognise the method from the photo (red thing in the middle of the rail - maybe like Basil's green flip lock?). Carradice just look strange so I can't tell. Brooks Devon have a hook on a bungee which I guess is some sort of way to stop it bouncing up. Topeak and Vaude look like some do, some don't. Bontrager seem like only hooks. Gilles Berthoud use Rixen and Kaul which I expect locks but I can't tell. Thule use a "Patented Blade Helix fixing system with magnetic lower stabiliser" whatever that is :?

So probably most lock, but not all.

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 1:40pm
by PH
mjr wrote:
PH wrote:There’s good reason most of the major makes use closed clips, I wouldn’t consider panniers without.

Not sure what "closed clips" are - sound useless for hanging over a rack rail!

A clip that closes, really I know you like a bit of disagreement, but even if the terminology isn't correct I'd have thought that in the context everyone would have understood the difference between closed and open. And it's a simple matter of fact that most if not all the big makes have a method of closing the clip around the rail, Carradice, Ortlieb, Vaude, Arkel... The only big make I know of that doesn't is Deuter, which is the one I ran into

Re: Alpkit Toliari panniers

Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 8:17pm
by willem jongman
These seem pretty useless bags. The clips are indeed not locking and the bags with clips are not really light either. The clipless ones are indeed lighter but I wonder how you are supposed to attach them to a rack. And 92 pounds for a set of 2x20 liter panniers is not that cheap compared to lighter Ortlieb City line panniers that will do the job.