Bike Packing v Panniers - the evidence

[Heltor Chasca]

How did you manage to keep the spare spokes in your seat post? I presume with gaffer tape or similar but it's not easy to tape things on to the inside of a small, deep cylinder. You wouldn't really want them falling into your seat tube.

I buy three spokes - one in each size, wrap them in bubble wrap or foam tape them up and shove them up the seat post. Done that for years. Never had one fall out into the down tube. I sometimes do the same with spare cash (but don't tell anyone)

Stems on stoker bars are a great place for hiding things.

[Bmblbzzz]

I didn't think of wrapping them in bubble wrap - that would make it easier. The cash in the seatpost trick was mentioned by Richard Ballantyne way back...

[Gattonero]

...
Are the shorts and shoes missing from the picture or am I missing part of the picture?
...

That in the picture is what goes inside the bag.
I don't take part in the Naked Bike Ride, so shorts, jersey and shoes are on me

[Gattonero]

This is not surprising for a highly focused tour.
1 it implies staying in hotels etc, but does not include remotely presentable clothing for use off the bike.
2 nothing for camping and cooking
For me the more interesting challenge is to reduce luggage for a camping tour, and see to what extent that is feasible with bike packing, and if/under what conditions there are any advantages.

Bike packing, the way I see it, usually does include a mix of wild and booked camping. Not really for "tourist" trip to the museums/etc., OTOH cycling shorts and a normal t-shirt/jersey are not a big deal and shouldn't give you bad looks (if that is a concern)?

Going off-road and/or wild camping requires more resources as you are pretty much on your own for water, food, electricity/etc.
Staying on the road and on booked campsites makes life easier, you can almost always get supplies of food, water, charging your powerbanks, etcetc; but mainly I've found that water can be the biggest problem so going off-road you are always carrying more than expected (it may not always be possible to filter some water).

I.e. that below is an off-road setup for 3 days completely self-sufficient. I am also carrying the food for two, hence the rear pack bigger than usual.
And following, a road-setup for 3 days on booked campsites, there was some food left in the central bag, plus a few things I bought at the Sandringham Estate (you know, friends love little pressies)





A full-camping being self-sufficient would require me about 30lt capacity. Tent, sleeping gear and water take some space.

[pjclinch]

Aerodynamics schmaerodynamics...


(my wife's touring setup)

[pwa]

I think we have to recognise that the tourist with four panniers and the one with bike-packing stuff are likely to be on different missions. When i took 4 panniers I was carrying gear for myself and two companions, which included a very light 4 man tent and other camping gear. Our intention was to cruise at maybe 12mph average and stop for lots of coffee breaks and dipping our feet in streams. A bike-packer is likely to have a more minimalist vision and will probably be carrying only their own kit. And they are likely to be in more of a hurry. Nothing wrong with that. Just a different way of getting your kicks.

[Gattonero]

... A bike-packer is likely to have a more minimalist vision and will probably be carrying only their own kit. And they are likely to be in more of a hurry. Nothing wrong with that. Just a different way of getting your kicks.

Not necessarily in a hurry, the thing with bikepacking is that you are more likely to be in a remote area so you've to stick with the planned route to avoid a bad surprise, i.e. being out in the wild means that you may get far from supplies and if the weather turns bad you cannot risk to run out of dry clothing, food, water and fuel. Of course this is the worst case but I've seen people getting lost in Wales and it's not good!
Also, unless one is very fit, going off-road means that the average speed is pretty slow for most, plus some time is lost in wrong turns/walking up very steep paths/fighting with brambles/etc.
i.e riding trough this doesn't make you ride fast, but you want to get out of it ASAP!

[BTP]

Interesting article about the aero-dynamic drag of panniers v bike packing

http://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-diffe ... g-results/

thoughts?

At the speed that I tour at, I don't think aerodynamics is going to affect me that much!!!

[WildOne]

Have used a Carradice Camper Longflap for credit card touring with bagman support for a few tours. Support was quite useful as held fully loaded bag more upright, plus was easier to load and unload. Support v. Lightweight. If you use with the bagman support, It might be useful to put a something to reinforce the base of bag or it tends to sag down either side of and down the middle of the bagman support once you are carrying a full load and bag has worn in a bit.

However just upgraded my bike and gone back to panniers, ordered a pair of classic front rollers to go on back rack.

Had bikepacker Ortilebs back in 2010, too much space, took too much stuff! Hills were a killer, drag is def. more noticeable with panniers compared to the Carradice.

So why did I go back to panniers? Knowing they cause a bit more drag? Well the Ortilebs seemed to hold their shape better and were easier to pack and get on and off the bike to go into accommodation overnightpack. Decided on front rollers as I think their capacity is similar to the Carradice Camper Longflap.

[Tangled Metal]

Interesting link.

I once read on a cycling forum that tyre rolling resistance is more important at lower speeds and aerodynamics at higher with aerodynamics coming more important above 15mph. Not sure how accurate that is.

My bike is my limiting factor with luggage. It's not a tourer so front panniers are out. Rear rack with Ortlieb back rollers and tent on the back. 8l bar bag and a single wheel trailer too. Although I was being the pack horse for my family with partner carrying child on a seat.

This year I'm looking to ditch the trailer by leaving more at home. Better kit with less bulk and weight too. The other thing I'm planning is to use a mix of trad and bikepacking luggage. This means rear panniers and loaded top of rear rack, bar bag, full frame bag and a top tube bag.

For me loaded touring is unlikely to be fast. My partner isn't fast and I'll always be carrying more to either balance out my partner carrying our young son or our relative speed difference. So luggage is a choice, what works for me. If I end up getting a proper/traditional tourer perhaps I'll go fully trad with 4 panniers. Although I'm rather liking alternative options. Recumbent or tandem (with child friendly stoker setup). There are a few interesting recumbent trikes too. Upright bikes aren't the only touring option afterall.

[Ivor Tingting]

Tortoise and the Hare come to mind. This is all.

[Tangled Metal]

Choice comes to my mind.

There's something of the ultralightweight backpacking thing about it. What I mean is more traditionalist backpackers used to joke about those trying to reduce the weight of their load by talking about cutting handles off toothbrushes. Now there is more likely to be backpackers with a lot less than the old pack weight recommendation of no more than a fifth of body weight. I'm not unusual in my base weight of 6kg or less now. I'm not cutting handles off toothbrushes to achieve it neither. That weight includes more than a little comfort.

It seems to me that people are reducing cycle touring loads too. If some do it by reducing weight and bulk such that it fits in a saddlebag and bar bag then good for them. It's their style and suited their needs. All talk of advantage due to aerodynamics is unimportant. These people are choosing the best system for their needs.

BTW it strikes me that some of the pannier fans are doing a similar thing but in another way. For example I.believe someone changed from Ortlieb back rollers at 40 litres down to altura panniers at 33 litres. Others about dropping front panniers to use a rack bag instead. It seems others are reducing weight and bulk their way. Similar approach but different solutions. This is apart from the issue of off road bikepacking where that style could genuinely have advantages due to narrow routes.

[willem jongman]

Indeed. I was the one who, with an Exped synmat UL and a PHD sleeping bag first reduced volume to such an extent that front panniers were no longer needed. Now even the rear panniers were not quite full, and at 1900 grams disproportionally heavy. Unfortunately there are very few lighter panniers on the market. I experimented with the 420 grams Arkel Drylites, but these turned out to be much smaller than initially advertised. So I have now settled on the 33 litre Altura Arc 15 panniers, at just 1050 grams for the set. The wet and dirty tent goes on top of the rack, and I also have a handlebar bag for my wallet, passport, medication, etc. The next step will be rather more expensive: a new solo tent to replace the current 3.1 kg tent. I will postpone that until the old one is really worn.

[Tangled Metal]

Have you looked at the Alpkit panniers? Seems to me they're quite light

[ossie]

Indeed. I was the one who, with an Exped synmat UL and a PHD sleeping bag first reduced volume to such an extent that front panniers were no longer needed. Now even the rear panniers were not quite full, and at 1900 grams disproportionally heavy. Unfortunately there are very few lighter panniers on the market. I experimented with the 420 grams Arkel Drylites, but these turned out to be much smaller than initially advertised. So I have now settled on the 33 litre Altura Arc 15 panniers, at just 1050 grams for the set. The wet and dirty tent goes on top of the rack, and I also have a handlebar bag for my wallet, passport, medication, etc. The next step will be rather more expensive: a new solo tent to replace the current 3.1 kg tent. I will postpone that until the old one is really worn.

Willem having read your posts on here for years about investing in quality lightweight kit to save weight I'm surprised to read that you have a 3.1kg tent

You are joking me right.