Bike Packing v Panniers - the evidence

[willem jongman]

By and large, it is my policy with all kinds of gear to use it until it is worn, and only then think about what to buy next. As for tents, most of my touring is with my wife, so for my solo trips I borrow my now 18 year old son's Helsport Rondane 3 tent. For practical purposes that is a two person tent with vestibule weighing 2.5 kg plus 600 grams for the footprint (not bad for a tent that can defeat the worst of weather). I bought it for him some years ago, but he does not like it, because it is too low (he is right there, it really is low). So I promised to also use it for my solo trips to wear it out sooner, and to buy him something more spacious when that time has come.
I know a new solo tent could save me some 1-1.5 kg, or even more (including footprint), but at a stiff price. So I opted to first spend 50 pounds to buy the Altura panniers, saving me 850 grams (and I would still have a good use for the Ortliebs, as shopping bags, and perhaps on the touring trips with my wife who is a bit apprehensive about ultralight). A new solo tent may well be on my shoping list for next year (just like a new tent for my son). I am currently wavering between a Helsport Ringstind 2 Pro at 1950 grams and the superlight version of the same tent at 1300 grams. The price difference is 200 euro, but the Superlight is also unlikely to last as long.
In the end, I am not an extreme ultralight camper. I like just a bit of comfort, and I think a slightly more spacious tent is a good way to spend a few extra grams. Too many of my friends have TN Lasers and warn me that those are cramped. Since I carry my tent on the bike's rear rack, its packed size does not really matter too much, unlike the sleeeping kit, where a large size requires heavy and expensive front panniers.

[pwa]

Choice comes to my mind.

There's something of the ultralightweight backpacking thing about it. What I mean is more traditionalist backpackers used to joke about those trying to reduce the weight of their load by talking about cutting handles off toothbrushes. Now there is more likely to be backpackers with a lot less than the old pack weight recommendation of no more than a fifth of body weight. I'm not unusual in my base weight of 6kg or less now. I'm not cutting handles off toothbrushes to achieve it neither. That weight includes more than a little comfort.

It seems to me that people are reducing cycle touring loads too. If some do it by reducing weight and bulk such that it fits in a saddlebag and bar bag then good for them. It's their style and suited their needs. All talk of advantage due to aerodynamics is unimportant. These people are choosing the best system for their needs.

BTW it strikes me that some of the pannier fans are doing a similar thing but in another way. For example I.believe someone changed from Ortlieb back rollers at 40 litres down to altura panniers at 33 litres. Others about dropping front panniers to use a rack bag instead. It seems others are reducing weight and bulk their way. Similar approach but different solutions. This is apart from the issue of off road bikepacking where that style could genuinely have advantages due to narrow routes.

My own use of four panniers, nice and low and well balanced, is my way of carrying as much as possible of what me and my family need to take. My aim is to reduce what weaker companions need to carry. Even with a heavy load, on long hot climbs in Provence I had to wait at the top for the others to catch up. I just find a comfortable gear I can spin for a long time and get in the zone. That leaves the others with a pair of small panniers each. What I do not do is pile it high. I keep the weight as low as possible, making the bike handle well on fast descents and under heavy braking. And I only put light stuff in the low slung front panniers. Lightweight sleeping bags (750g) and Thermarests, flipflops, and not much else. Next to nothing on top of the rear rack.

[willem jongman]

When my kids were younger, I was the family mule too, of course. And indeed, if you are only using rear panniers, you should not pack too high. Just rear panniers but with a huge rackpack on top makes no sense. With just rear panniers, the tent on top, and a handlebar bag, my bike handles very well up to about 15 kg luggage weight. The upper limit is about 18 kg.

[Tangled Metal]

Panniers with tent on top. Bar bag has money, phone, extra layers, compact camera, etc. Small bits that aren't too heavy. It's an 8 litre bar bag so can take a bit of stuff however I feel too much weight there makes handling feel wrong.

This year I'm hoping to use a frame bag that fills most of the triangle if not all of it. I'm just holding.back.until I can get my head round where our kit and clothes will be going. I think we need to get it all together and work out a good packing arrangement. We're changing a few things around, taking less, etc.

The unknown is what to put in the frame bag. I'm thinking something heavy to help the weight balance. I did think tent might fit into a full triangle frame bag or at least the flysheet or inner tent. Perhaps add in pegs. I'm also wondering whether the tent poles could be strapped to the top tube with the frame bag straps and extra Velcro straps. Not completely sure if it's a good idea but I might try it. I'm sure others have done stranger things with loading a bike.

[willem jongman]

The snag with frame bags is that they are small. I am using the same space for two largish drinking bottles (plus a fuel botle underneath the downtube), and between them they weigh almost as much as a framebag would, if filled with the usual kind of stuff like clothing etc.

[pwa]

Panniers with tent on top. Bar bag has money, phone, extra layers, compact camera, etc. Small bits that aren't too heavy. It's an 8 litre bar bag so can take a bit of stuff however I feel too much weight there makes handling feel wrong.

This year I'm hoping to use a frame bag that fills most of the triangle if not all of it. I'm just holding.back.until I can get my head round where our kit and clothes will be going. I think we need to get it all together and work out a good packing arrangement. We're changing a few things around, taking less, etc.

The unknown is what to put in the frame bag. I'm thinking something heavy to help the weight balance. I did think tent might fit into a full triangle frame bag or at least the flysheet or inner tent. Perhaps add in pegs. I'm also wondering whether the tent poles could be strapped to the top tube with the frame bag straps and extra Velcro straps. Not completely sure if it's a good idea but I might try it. I'm sure others have done stranger things with loading a bike.

You can save a lot of space and weight by choosing clothing that is thin, mostly synthetic, and dries very quickly. As well as being light and compact it can be washed in the evening while you are having a shower and be dry enough to wear the next day. I use one of those compact travel towels that act like a blotter, wrap clothing up in it, roll it like a sausage, kneel on it, etc to dry clothing really quickly. I can get cycle shorts almost completely dry in no time. So you end up with lighter clothing and don't need so many items. But you know that anyway.

Do you need to cook? Can you make do with salads, etc, plus eating out? If so, leave the cooking kit at home.

[Tangled Metal]

I can do without a lot, not so sure about my partner and 4 year old though. From backpacking I can be sorted with 20 litre sack and less than 6kg base load. My child can need more than that on his own without shelter included.

I've contacted a custom luggage manufacturer and they reckon 8 litres for a full triangle frame bag. That's not exactly insignificant. I could fit a fuel bottle under the downtube, tent pole under the top tube, pegs and fly in the bag. Perhaps I could find something heavier to put in it. The water bottle could be carried elsewhere or near the top of the frame bag.

Alternatively I could just get a half frame bag with 2 side entry cages to fill the space in the main triangle. IIRC one brand has that at 5 litres. Add in a large frame top bag under the nose of the saddle and smaller one behind the stem. All together could give me extra snippets of load space that whilst not as good as 4 panniers loading it's the best for what my bike can manage. Gets us out there afterall.

[Gattonero]

I can do without a lot, not so sure about my partner and 4 year old though. From backpacking I can be sorted with 20 litre sack and less than 6kg base load. My child can need more than that on his own without shelter included.

I've contacted a custom luggage manufacturer and they reckon 8 litres for a full triangle frame bag. That's not exactly insignificant. I could fit a fuel bottle under the downtube, tent pole under the top tube, pegs and fly in the bag. Perhaps I could find something heavier to put in it. The water bottle could be carried elsewhere or near the top of the frame bag.

Alternatively I could just get a half frame bag with 2 side entry cages to fill the space in the main triangle. IIRC one brand has that at 5 litres. Add in a large frame top bag under the nose of the saddle and smaller one behind the stem. All together could give me extra snippets of load space that whilst not as good as 4 panniers loading it's the best for what my bike can manage. Gets us out there afterall.

When traveling with family, I guess it needs a lot more. I can pack my stuff in less than 15lt on a 2-3days trip!

Frame bags are related to one's style for cycling, i.e. I tend to keep my knees straight so can only have a very narrow frame bag. Useful for food and water, tho. bulky&light stuff (sleeping bag and clothes) can go in the front roll or saddle pack

[willem jongman]

When the children were young, we never managed without a luggage trailer. Total luggage weight was some 60 kg for two adults and two children, two thirds of it on a two wheeled trailer.

[neilwragg]

I've gone from just two huge panniers which I made from inner tubes (ok bit heavy to start with!) to a mixture of panniers with bikepacking luggage.

I made two small panniers with toll top side closures from vinyl banners, a handlebar harness, a saddle bag made from inner tubes and a frame bag made from waterproof cordura with waterproof zips.
So now instead of all the weight wagging my rear end it's spread evenly with the benefit of easily accessing the cooking kit from the panniers when I need a brew.
The frame bag is excellent, when custom made to fit your bike it uses all the empty space without restricting access to the bottles.


Neil Wragg - Ragsto Bags
BBC TV’s Money For Nothing Upcycler!
Unique bespoke luggage. Designed & upcycled from incredible materials.
http://www.Ragsto.com
http://twitter.com/ragsto_marlow
http://facebook.com/RagstoMarlow

[Tangled Metal]

Like the frame bags a lot. I'm considering getting one and can't decide on full frame to get capacity or the stepped option to carry water. What's your view having used them? Have you every used a full frame bag?

If cutouts for bottles, would you prefer one or two bottles? Also side entry bottle cages, what's your view on them with your frame bags? I noticed you use top entry which seems less practical.

[neilwragg]

If you had a full frame bag you'd get loads in! In mine that is cut around the bottles I can still get in my tools, stove, cafetiere, coffee, snacks, mug & kettle & cable lock. Alternatively it's a good place for waterproofs & clothes as they squish into all the corners.
Bottle access isn't restricted, the bag kind of swings out of the way. The cost is around £100 based on the one in the pics, just send a cardboard template (tape it to your frame and draw around the inside of the frame and around your bottles).

[Tangled Metal]

Have you ever tried a full frame bag?

[neilwragg]

No, just because I prefer to have the water bottles on the bike.

[Gattonero]

Another solution is to have a "stem cell" to keep a normal waterbottle by the handlebars, and it gets refilled from a bladder/pouch in the frame bag.

This method has several advantages.
First, the waterbottle is in a very convenient position, which also keeps it clean. The stem-cell may have some padding which does help keeping the water cool.
The second thing is that one is able to carry clean water in the frame bag, and refill the water bottle with water and add electrolytes.

I've found this very useful when going with the Mtb in self-sufficient trips. Water is heavy so it's good to have most of it in the middle of the frame.
Having the water away from mud spray is a massive bonus too.