What do people use for GPS backup on tours

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psmiffy
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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby psmiffy » 4 May 2017, 11:17am

tatanab wrote:
meic wrote:As pointed out, maps for a tour could weigh about a kilogram and cost about £50 for each tour.
Not really since maps are used time after time unless making a one off visit such as my tour of New Zealand 12 years ago. My European maps are used many times over and replaced when too dog-eared.


I went back to New Zealand so that I could get value for money for my maps :D

psmiffy
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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby psmiffy » 4 May 2017, 11:20am

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
meic wrote:I had a GPS "failure" on my recent trip.
The track provided by Cycletravel.co.uk was taking me over some ploughed fields, for an excessive distance. The GPS's own routing offered the same ploughed fields (using OSM).


Can you let me know where, so I can fix it?


Is there an idiots guide on the net to how the OSM weighting works?

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meic
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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby meic » 4 May 2017, 11:30am

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
meic wrote:I had a GPS "failure" on my recent trip.
The track provided by Cycletravel.co.uk was taking me over some ploughed fields, for an excessive distance. The GPS's own routing offered the same ploughed fields (using OSM).


Can you let me know where, so I can fix it?

Is it something that you can fix?
I notice that like last year, it seems to be French Flanders where I have the issues. It is marked on the mapping as paved road but was a farm track/dry river bed and I was carrying the bike as much as I was pushing it. It wasnt actually ploughed fields but ruts from tractor tyres that were over a foot deep and about as wide, in parts it was through freshly planted saplings.

To the East of Phillipville which is south of Charleroi.

The track between TY75829 54723 and TY72945 56436 if those grid references make any sense to you.
Last edited by meic on 4 May 2017, 12:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Richard Fairhurst
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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 4 May 2017, 12:28pm

Ah, I see. http://cycle.travel/map?from=50.200728, ... 7,4.630420 is the route. (Trying to get a lat/long from a UK grid reference in France is an interesting exercise. ;) )

In this case it looks like the track has been tagged in OSM as 'highway=road', which is a misleading and not very useful indication of "road of some sort, not sure what". It's effectively a mapping error. I wonder if the fact that you've come across it in French Flanders means that there's a local mapper who likes using that tag - OSM can sometimes be susceptible to prolific individual mappers with their own distinct tagging style.

What I'll do is drastically reduce cycle.travel's weighting for highway=road from "probably ok" to "probably really bad", which will stop it routing over that sort of track. That'll take effect next time I update the routing which should be in a week or two.
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Richard Fairhurst
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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 4 May 2017, 12:31pm

psmiffy wrote:Is there an idiots guide on the net to how the OSM weighting works?


It varies from router to router - each one has its own 'special sauce' which juggles different factors. (That's how CycleStreets offers 'fast', 'balanced' and 'quiet' options, for example - three different sets of weightings you can choose from.) But in short, cycle.travel prefers quiet roads (e.g. highway=unclassified) and good surfaces. There's a little bit about it at http://cycle.travel/about/maps .
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meic
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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby meic » 4 May 2017, 1:04pm

Thank-you Richard.

That should be in time for next year's trip. Though it will not be the same without cycletravel leading me down such paths. :lol:

I am quite impressed by what you and the OSM deliver between the two of you and all for free!
It is too easy to notice the bad mile or two (especially when man-handling a loaded bike on an assault course and concentrating on a diversity in vehemence, vocabulary and volume for your tirade of swearing towards the particular bit of the internet that has enticed you there) and ignore the other 1100 miles of traffic-light, climb-free cycling.

As an encore, could you rid Belgium of those awful cobblestones?
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WorldWideWilby
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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby WorldWideWilby » 4 May 2017, 3:57pm

The last trip I took one phone for GPS and my main phone for backup. Then I took paper maps. I only used my main phone with backup charger

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G901F using hovercraft full of eels.

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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby mjr » 4 May 2017, 4:47pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:What I'll do is drastically reduce cycle.travel's weighting for highway=road from "probably ok" to "probably really bad", which will stop it routing over that sort of track. That'll take effect next time I update the routing which should be in a week or two.

I recently increased the softness of the highway=track at http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/229046839 partly in an attempt to stop cycle.travel being quite so keen on using it rather than the alternative tarmac roads to the north or south on routes like cycle.travel/map?from=52.8301,0.5076&to=52.8613,0.6252 - will that work?
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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby ukdodger » 4 May 2017, 5:58pm

foxyrider wrote:I can't believe that this is even being discussed! Next it'll be spare stoves, wheels, why not take a spare tent - just in case?

Get a grip folks, learn to properly read a map, have a route list (towns you want to pass through) and get on with the riding!


It's getting on with the riding I want to do not spend it stopping at each turn and consulting a map. I can read a map quite well like most of us but that's not the point. I just dont want to be bothered with it. GPS is easier. I dont have to worry about unfolding it perhaps in the wet and wind while fumbling for my glasses and the GPS doesnt make mistakes whereas I might. No doubt there are those among us who could circumnavigate the globe by sniffing the air alone but who cares. I tour because I love to ride if the GPS does the navigating that's fine by me.

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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby ukdodger » 4 May 2017, 6:03pm

Warin61 wrote:In 'the middle of nowhere' the choices are few and far between, so a GPS is not so essential.. a good paper map with some basic knowledge of where you were, how far you have travelled and in what direction should see you good.

A backup for the GPS .. a smart phone with an app - OSMand, mapout, maps.me etc will get you something that functions much like a true GPS. Like an electronic thing they take some learning.

Personally I like to take a paper map, a GPS and a smart phone.


I like the idea of the smartphone. My phone is an old PAYG Nokia. I'll look into trading up that will give backup and a phone.

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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby Psamathe » 4 May 2017, 6:12pm

ukdodger wrote:
Warin61 wrote:In 'the middle of nowhere' the choices are few and far between, so a GPS is not so essential.. a good paper map with some basic knowledge of where you were, how far you have travelled and in what direction should see you good.

A backup for the GPS .. a smart phone with an app - OSMand, mapout, maps.me etc will get you something that functions much like a true GPS. Like an electronic thing they take some learning.

Personally I like to take a paper map, a GPS and a smart phone.


I like the idea of the smartphone. My phone is an old PAYG Nokia. I'll look into trading up that will give backup and a phone.

Smartphones are pretty easy to load gpx's onto (depending on the app) and have loads of storage for mapping (depending on the app). For example, on my iPhone I have the entire UK mapping loaded at the highest resolution (vector mapping) and it takes approx 600MB. Loads of different ways to load gpx (mail it to a special email address and it'll appear in the app, Dropbox, OneDrive, FTP, etc.). But how easy it is and how good the maps are will depend on the app you select.

Ian

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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby ukdodger » 4 May 2017, 6:26pm

Psamathe wrote:
ukdodger wrote:
Warin61 wrote:In 'the middle of nowhere' the choices are few and far between, so a GPS is not so essential.. a good paper map with some basic knowledge of where you were, how far you have travelled and in what direction should see you good.

A backup for the GPS .. a smart phone with an app - OSMand, mapout, maps.me etc will get you something that functions much like a true GPS. Like an electronic thing they take some learning.

Personally I like to take a paper map, a GPS and a smart phone.


I like the idea of the smartphone. My phone is an old PAYG Nokia. I'll look into trading up that will give backup and a phone.

Smartphones are pretty easy to load gpx's onto (depending on the app) and have loads of storage for mapping (depending on the app). For example, on my iPhone I have the entire UK mapping loaded at the highest resolution (vector mapping) and it takes approx 600MB. Loads of different ways to load gpx (mail it to a special email address and it'll appear in the app, Dropbox, OneDrive, FTP, etc.). But how easy it is and how good the maps are will depend on the app you select.

Ian


Thanks. Can you say what it costs. No worries if you'd rather not.

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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 4 May 2017, 7:17pm

mjr wrote:I recently increased the softness of the highway=track at http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/229046839 partly in an attempt to stop cycle.travel being quite so keen on using it rather than the alternative tarmac roads to the north or south on routes like cycle.travel/map?from=52.8301,0.5076&to=52.8613,0.6252 - will that work?


Definitely - anything with an unfavourable 'tracktype' tag gets downrated heavily.
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Psamathe
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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby Psamathe » 4 May 2017, 8:01pm

ukdodger wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
ukdodger wrote:
I like the idea of the smartphone. My phone is an old PAYG Nokia. I'll look into trading up that will give backup and a phone.

Smartphones are pretty easy to load gpx's onto (depending on the app) and have loads of storage for mapping (depending on the app). For example, on my iPhone I have the entire UK mapping loaded at the highest resolution (vector mapping) and it takes approx 600MB. Loads of different ways to load gpx (mail it to a special email address and it'll appear in the app, Dropbox, OneDrive, FTP, etc.). But how easy it is and how good the maps are will depend on the app you select.

Ian


Thanks. Can you say what it costs. No worries if you'd rather not.

What is available depends on what phone you get. If you are a smartphone user you'll probably be more prepared to pay more whereas if it's just for emergency backup you'll be looking for something cheaper.

I use my phone a lot so I went iPhone (bit more expensive) and MapOut app (£3 approx) using free OSM mapping incl. e.g. cycle network layers, contours, etc. Some apps are more Social Media focused, others more focused on outdoor activities (MapOut is more focused on outdoor activities).

If you get a 2nd hand phone (cheaper) be careful about how worn the battery is (charge/discharge cycles reduce the power the battery can store and thus you get less use between charges). Also, older phones tend to not take latest operating systems (or are closer to the time when they wont update to the latest) and quite a lot of software apps limit how old an operating system they will work on. So 2nd hand phone cheaper but probably shorter life.

Discussed on other threads but also consider if you want offline route calculation (you enter start and end points and it calculates a route - many don't think apps do this well as they don't have the resources a web online system has); do you want turn by turn announcements for a pre determined route?; do you want just a track drawn over a map. Different apps provide different functionality and there are recent threads discussing these things.

Ian

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Re: What do people use for GPS backup on tours

Postby ossie » 4 May 2017, 8:01pm

ukdodger wrote:
foxyrider wrote:I can't believe that this is even being discussed! Next it'll be spare stoves, wheels, why not take a spare tent - just in case?

Get a grip folks, learn to properly read a map, have a route list (towns you want to pass through) and get on with the riding!


It's getting on with the riding I want to do not spend it stopping at each turn and consulting a map. I can read a map quite well like most of us but that's not the point. I just dont want to be bothered with it. GPS is easier. I dont have to worry about unfolding it perhaps in the wet and wind while fumbling for my glasses and the GPS doesnt make mistakes whereas I might. No doubt there are those among us who could circumnavigate the globe by sniffing the air alone but who cares. I tour because I love to ride if the GPS does the navigating that's fine by me.


Agree, mirrors my thoughts even if it doesn't appeal to the purists.