Getting back on course with Garmin

[RickH]

To answer the question, I have been loading routes as TCX because that is what people, and RWGPS, have recommended. But interestingly, I called Garmin's help line again last night and asked if indeed the units are designed to provide turn-by-turn instructions after one has returned to the course. The person I spoke with initially told me I had to reset the unit to recalculate my course. I told him I didn't want a new course to get to my destination but to simply restart using my programmed course once again. He thought this a strange request and checked with someone else who said that getting turn-by-turn instructions on the original course was not possible.

My old Edge 605 didn't do turn by turn but would sometimes decide to just keep on telling how far away I was form the point it wanted me to pass through but hadn't. With that Garmin I just followed the line on the map. I now have a 1000 and it has definitely picked up the turn by turn instructions after stopping. As I said earlier in the discussion, I'm not sure is it was because I'd gone through another "hard" point or because the Edge had been to sleep for a short time while it & I recharged 60ish miles into a 90 miles ride. Whatever happened it definitely started doing turn-by-turn again on the same route (loaded as a TCX course file - but if it hadn't I would have quite happily just followed the line on the map as that is what I'd been doing for years). For planning routes I tend to use either Cycle.travel or Bikehike. Cycle.travel is good but you can't force it to go where it doesn't think there is a road or a path. Generally you can persuade Bikehike to go where you want to, even if there is nothing on the map, but the at least some of the times I've had problems with following a route is where I've gone back to edit a route using "Drag Edit Mode". I don't often use that mode, as it puts in "hard" points that can cause problems if you don't go through them for whatever reason, unless I've put time into creating a route from instructions & find that something isn't quite right. I think that was the problem with the 90 mile route I mentioned above - I may have overshot a junction very slightly with setting a drag point (if I wasn't zoomed in closely enough) or there was a discrepancy between the mapping in Bikehike (Google) & my Garmin (OpenStreetMap) that made just enough difference to miss the point.

If that is the case, people at Garmin don't have any idea about what it is to be a touring cyclist. Often on tour we go from A to B without deviating. But equally as often, when we are on a route from A to B, we see or hear about something interesting down another road and would like to have a look. If we do so, then we seem to lose the turn-by-turn when resuming our route.

You're probably right - most of the Garmin cycle stuff is aimed at training/racing, you have to figure out how to use what there is for your own purposes to some extent (like using courses to plan legs of a tour or day rides rather than its intended purpose for training). I've found that generally my Edge 1000 DOES pick up the navigating if I return to a course. I get a "course found" notification & all is good again.

Does anyone know whether other units, either those made by Garmin or other companies can pick up the turn-by-turn. I have been reading about some of the latest GPS devices that use not only the usual GPS signals by some Russian ones as well. Would that make a difference?

The Russian GLONASS system can help to give you a GPS fix more accurately but it won't affect the turn-by-turn navigation. The Cycle.travel route planner puts in its own turn-by-turn instructions as "coursepoints" (which I personally strip out again before loading into my Edge) which may work for some (with turn-by-turn navigation switched off on your GPS device). When all is said & done I've never found a GPS system (including car satnavs & Google maps routing) to be completely flawless so you have to keep an eye on the map to some extent (but then paper maps aren't flawless either & the advantage of a GPS system is that it will, usually, show where you actually are rather than having to figure it out.

[mongoose]

On our group rides we usually have two Touring Pluses and one 520. We have found that they all have their foibles when following a route, particularly when deciding to divert off or take a shortcut. Sometimes one or other will just switch off and the ride data is lost and it needs to be switched back on again. Sometimes we will be following a route and it will stop giving directions although you can follow it on the map screen - not so handy if like me you keep it mainly on the data screen [so usually one of us always has a map screen on] If we divert off route, for a small diversion it usually gives directions to get back on track. If the diversion is longer, then sometimes we have found the directions change to back to the start - we use Orux offline maps on the phones as a backup to check [easier than zooming out on the Garmin. When the Garmin stops giving directions we normally just re-load the route, making sure not select navigate to the start - this is OK if you are on or near the route, but if on a long diversion it gives a calculation error and we need to resort to the phones to get back on route.

The other problem comes where you have a complicated route with very short leg lengths and changes in direction at junctions where the Garmin processor isn't fast enough and can't keep up and it is easy to miss a turning. This happened to us in the centre of Vienna where there was a myriad of bike paths, bridges, canals and roads where the leg lengths were sometimes only about 100m and the Garmin missed a couple of turns and sent us riding on the path on the wrong side of the canal.

I don't want to give the impression that the Touring Plus is useless for route navigation as we think, provided you accept their foibles they are excellent for route navigation and the errors are relatively rare.

[bobzeller]

That begs the question, is there a better unit that will give turn-by-turn information when you have resumed your programmed course? Some posters have said the Garmin 1000 as a unit will. But for touring, there are battery limitations which means the navigation has to be turned of if it is to last for a full day. So for most tourists, the 1000 is of no value.

I might add that asking Garmin help desk people for advice as to Garmin models that might be more suited gets you nowhere. Ask three, as I did, and you'll get three different answers.

Regards

Bob

[yutkoxpo]

The other problem comes where you have a complicated route with very short leg lengths and changes in direction at junctions where the Garmin processor isn't fast enough and can't keep up and it is easy to miss a turning. This happened to us in the centre of Vienna where there was a myriad of bike paths, bridges, canals and roads where the leg lengths were sometimes only about 100m and the Garmin missed a couple of turns and sent us riding on the path on the wrong side of the canal.

I don't want to give the impression that the Touring Plus is useless for route navigation as we think, provided you accept their foibles they are excellent for route navigation and the errors are relatively rare.

I had the exact same problem when I borrowed a Garmin Touring last year. City navigation was impossible..... unless I walked the bike. The Garmin could not keep up with turn information. Not nice in big cities when you can quickly find yourself spending more time looking at your unit rather than the road.

On the loss of turn by turn, I had that too when deviating from the route. For me, losing the turn by turn was not that big an issue as the original route was still visible with a purple line. However, given the detail on the map screen, this was not always easy to follow - again not ideal in bigger urban areas

At other times the navigation just stopped. Sometimes it would restart if I reloaded the route, sometimes not. Also, the tracking info was lost when that happened. Not a big deal, but disappointing.

Another disadvantage I found was the uselessness of the POI information. I recall one evening being 2 months early (!) for the next ferry crossing here in NL and trying to use the Garmin to find the nearest campsite. Even though I could see 3, according to Garmin (or the maps they use) the nearest was 57 km away. I could whip out my phone and OSMand identified the campsites beside me.

I wanted a GPS for emergency use, for when I needed to get somewhere asap. I decided not to purchase his unit precisely because the navigation was so unreliable in cities.
Other factors were the frequent drop outs (enough to undermine my confidence), poor battery life coupled with incompatibility with a dynohub, the poor POI info and the fact that route planning was next to impossible without access to a computer.

Oh, and customer service from Garmin was appalling!

Frank

[monxton]

My old Edge 605 didn't do turn by turn

FWIW, that's not quite true. The 605 / 705s supported an extended format that Garmin called GPXX, which did exactly that - the Edge used it to give you satnav-style turn-by-turn directions on a pre-planned route. However Garmin chose not to continue it into later devices. Not many of the online route planners supported it, but bikehike.co.uk did (and still does).

[bobzeller]

Re gloomyandy's question. Yes I did try reloading etc but it didn't work any better. However, I just spoke once again with Garmin and was told that if I were to plot my course on RideWithGPS then download it onto Base Camp and only then onto my GPS unit, it would work. I would get turn-by-turn instructions after getting back on course. The Help Desk man was absolutely convinced he was right. I'll have a go except I am dreading learning how to do that. Incidentally, he also suggested that I should split each day's ride (when I am on tour) into separate sections. He said if I normally travelled 50km or so each day, then I should
should plot two 25km routes. That way, if I did get off-course on the first section, I would at the very least be able to get the Garmin to direct me to the start of the next course from the point that I was at.

I'll do some experimenting over the weekend and, as well, ask RWGPS if they have a view about the Garmin advice. Meanwhile, has anyone had more luck using a cycle.tour plotted course. If Richard Fairhurst, who quite often follows these posts sees this, comments from him would be most appreciated.

Cheers

[bobzeller]

I have now tried everything that's been suggested without luck. Bu in the process, I have learned that the default method for completing my route suggested by so many - simply following the purple line on the screen - works and works well. So many thanks for all the advice.

Cheers

Bob

[bobzeller]

Hi Bob

I have the Edge Touring (not “plus”), but I assume that it is the same as your unit in respect of the GPS/navigation “engine”, and is only different regarding connectivity for peripherals.

Almost all my rides are created using cycle.travel and I usually download as a TCX Course with tick box for “announce turns 30m in advance” ticked. Defaults on the Garmin are set per RidewithGPS (especially the Recalculation option as “off”). Rides are normally loaded up to the SD card in the Garmin.

Starting off:
1. Where To?
2. Saved
3. Courses
4. [Select loaded TCX by name]
5. Ride
6. Navigate to Beginning? Yes (the tick).

After route calculation, off we go, with purple line to follow and turn by turn notifications working.

Detour off course. (Usually, there’s a pub involved …...)

Return to course – back on the purple line. Sometimes turn by turn notifications simply restart, sometimes they don’t. I don’t really have any firm theories why the Garmin behaves differently on occasion, but it may be to do with how far/how long (in time) off course.

If turn by turn has failed, these are the steps I take to bring it back.

1. Press red “Stop Navigation” button (and confirm stop by selecting the tick at the subsequent prompt).
2. Switch off then back on. (I’m not sure this step is necessary, but it’s belt and braces).
3. Go back to the same steps as “Starting off”, above, with the only difference being step 6. which is now: Navigate to Beginning? No (the cross).

As long as I am on the purple line, this seems to bring back turn by turn notifications for me (as well as all the other useful stuff when navigating, such as ETA, distance to destination etc which all go awry when off course).

I hope you get it working.

Paul

Paul

Bingo! I did exactly as directed by you and it worked. Many, many thanks for your patient, and detailed advice.

Cheers