Lisbon - Madrid - Bilbao (or Santander)

[GideonReade]

Has anyone got any advice on a route through these points? Unfortunately it doesn't map to Eurovelo or Carmino routes as far as I can see.

Intended start time early March (chilly inland). Finish time flexible. Pretty loaded road tourers.

The north coast end points I wrote above are, I guess obviously, ferry related, Portsmouth being preferred at the other end. A run up through France is an alternative - we have done that the other way in the summer.

[borisface]

I live in rural central Portugal, the Portuguese say that at that time of the year the temperature can be 8 or 80. Of more concern, however, could be the rain. It can be very wet in the spring. Basically Portugal gets about the same annual rainfall as south east UK, but generally it falls between Jan and April. Having said that we do get days that are in the 80's in March. So its pot luck really. Some of the mountainous areas of Spain near Madrid such as Sierra de Gredos will have snow at that time of year.

Portugal is very poorly mapped. GPS or mobile phone is by far the best bet.

In terms of route, it depends how much climbing you want to do, bearing in mind that the Serra da Estrela in Portugal may still have snow. You could head east via Evora and Elvas via Badajoz - the Alentejo region of PT is beautiful in the spring. Then via Badajoz, Cacares to Madrid. and from there more or less north to Bilbao. One thing to be aware of is that the middle of Spain is a large flattish meseta at about 1000 metres which is pretty boring and could be chilly and windy. Salamanca is worth a visit.

Good luck!

[HarryD]

For the Lisbon to Madrid leg have a look at http://poweradenonstopseries.com/madridlisboa. Its a mountain bike challenge but there are plenty of roads that follow close by. Keeping to its general direction would give you an excellent route in any case

The approaches to Madrid tend to be something of a dispiriting urban sprawl but they are soon passed. The country to the north and west is hilly but excellent for cycle touring as I'm sure you'll find. Madrid is well worth a couple of days

Madrid to Bilbao is covered in the Cicerone Cycle Touring in Spain. If heading for Santander leave the route any time after Miranda de Ebro and head north west. You won't be sorry

Hope this helps

HarryD

[Cyril Haearn]

I read that there had been very little rain in Portugal this year (no guide to the future)

Would one need to speak Portuguese AND Spanish?

[nsew]

Many of the old National (N) roads in Spain are flanked by the new motorway (A) roads. These N roads are great for bombing along on with very low traffic, if any. From Burgos to Bilbao you can take the N627 which takes you to the CL629, which will take you all the way to the Basque. Follow your nose from there to Bilbao. The CL629 is one of the finest roads I ever cycled - it’s magical. Word of warning, keep an eye on the weather up there. I travelled it peak summer and took a life threatening battering late one day. You will be at 1000m plus.

[GideonReade]

Thanks folks, that gives us good stuff to start planning.

We have one or ten words of Spanish only, no Portuguese. But I've lost count of the number of countries we've crossed without speaking the language. A few words, lots of smiles, and mime usually suffices. We usually jot down a ten word dictionary on the Barbag, and by the time we reach the next border we've learnt it.

I guess I'd better book those flights to Lisbon then...

[MartinBrice]

you might want to look at starting in seville, which i did in May, and following the camino northwards. there are guides for cyclists with accommodation (dormitory and hotels) listed.
Portugal is hilly, i'm told. and the region to the east has less rain, so starting in seville would mean a drier trip.

you can't book a bike on the bilbao ferry, the brittany ferries website says you have to phone them up if you want to book a bike. i think this is because they want the cabins to be booked by car drivers, who pay a lot to put the car on the boat, rather than cyclists. but you can book a reclining seat on the santander ferry hence you can take a bike on that one. it costs £90 for the ticket and £10 for the seat. you might be able to fly home for a similar price.

if you opt to ride back across France you might want to look at using the train for the boring bits - eg Hendaye to Bordeaux is flat and tedious. once in france the trains are far more bike friendly than in spain.

remember in spain you can put the bike on a long-distance coach, you need to buy a bike ticket and turn it upside down, remove front wheel and cover it in a wrapper so it doesn't muck up other people's luggage. all easily done with bin bags and parcel tape.

[GideonReade]

Thanks again.

We took bikes on the Bilbao to Portsmouth ferry back in, err, maybe 2010. I can't remember the booking arrangements. This time we don't have jobs to go back to, so we can play it by ear. First trip that we've had that retiree privilege. Certainly had enough of flying bike for a while, even though never had a serious problem with it.

Seville might be interesting, however our constraint is we want economical direct flights, from anywhere in Florida. Miami-Lisbon is such, seems cheaper than Miami-Madrid. I'll check for Seville flights.

[nsew]

you might want to look at starting in seville, which i did in May, and following the camino northwards. there are guides for cyclists with accommodation (dormitory and hotels) listed.
Portugal is hilly, i'm told. and the region to the east has less rain, so starting in seville would mean a drier trip.

you can't book a bike on the bilbao ferry, the brittany ferries website says you have to phone them up if you want to book a bike. i think this is because they want the cabins to be booked by car drivers, who pay a lot to put the car on the boat, rather than cyclists. but you can book a reclining seat on the santander ferry hence you can take a bike on that one. it costs £90 for the ticket and £10 for the seat. you might be able to fly home for a similar price.

if you opt to ride back across France you might want to look at using the train for the boring bits - eg Hendaye to Bordeaux is flat and tedious. once in france the trains are far more bike friendly than in spain.

remember in spain you can put the bike on a long-distance coach, you need to buy a bike ticket and turn it upside down, remove front wheel and cover it in a wrapper so it doesn't muck up other people's luggage. all easily done with bin bags and parcel tape.

Err.......plenty of variety and interest between Hendaye and Bordeaux. St Jean, Biarritz, Bayonne, Capbreton, Dune du Pilat, Arcachon. The 100k ? or so of cycle path through the Park Natural de Landes is some of the smoothest path you’ll ever encounter. Fantastic territory for a get away from it all wild camp. It’s (/);’ #& hard work leaving Bilbao for Hendaye (and the reverse). I gave up a day or two in and took an inexpensive local train. Portugal, follow the river routes inland to Spain but be careful not to end up on a truck route. Good if ad infinitum Russian Roulette appeals. Serra Da Estrela Park is stunning though hard work. Packs of stray dogs are a problem in some areas of Portugal, mark your territory at each corner of the tent.

[borisface]

Portugal had one of the driest years ever in 2017, but its making up for it now!

Re the language a few words of Portuguese would be useful and appreciated. Politeness gets you a long way. If you can speak a bit of Spanish or French you'll get the gist of written Portuguese but the pronunciation and accent is tricky to say the least. Younger people ie. under 35 generally speak some English as they learn in school and some speak to a very high standard. A surprising number of older retired people speak French as they lived and worked in Francophone nations. The Portuguese are incredibly friendly and hospitable and tend to go out of their way to be helpful. Its not uncommon to be invited in for a copa de vinho if you're looking around a village. Many rural Portuguese make upwards of 300 litres of wine a year and are more than willing to let you help them drink it. They are also quite a tactile culture so don't be alarmed if people touch your arm in cafes and restaurants when talking to you.

Although you will see plenty of dogs and will get chased, they tend not to be vicious and are more of a nuisance rather than a danger. A quick squirt from your bidon normally perplexes them. I have found dogs asleep in the road to be more of a hazard tbh as if they are in dappled sunlight you just don't see them.

[GideonReade]

Hmm, we're erring toward skipping the Spanish ferry ports and riding the French coast.

Picking up on Martin Brice's camino suggestion, I see there's one running north from Lisbon to Santiago. Then one could run another camino backwards, eastward to France or Bilbao. Anyone experience of cycling the Portugal coast north from Lisbon? Could be a delight or a truck-fest.
Relevant map http://santiago-compostela.net/routes/

[borisface]

There are some great coastal towns north of Lisbon such as Peniche, Ericeira, Nazare, Aveiro. All of them (except Aveiro) have world class surf beaches. Like anywhere, lorries will be an issue if you stick to the main roads but you should be OK on smaller roads. You could try some of the eurovelo route, I've not done any of it myself but other eurovelos I've done were great. http://euroveloportugal.com/en/

[GideonReade]

Sorry, that was an aberration on my part, we can't follow the Portuguese coast north, as we, specifically, want to go via Madrid. I forgot that when looking at the camino.

Madrid is the antipode of Wellington, and we're supposed to pass through a pair of antipodal points for a "valid" RTW. Not that anyone's checking, apart from ourselves.

[GideonReade]

Perhaps an update for posterity...

Borisface said it may be rainy, and oh boy it has. We stayed in Lisbon 9 days, I think it rained on most of them. Cycling kit shrugged it off as we ambled around, most locals use umbrellas. Lovely city though. We visited the Decathlon superstore, and bought rain hats to go under our helmets, a great move.

(also note for others, Decathlon sell ISO screw gas cannisters, the superstores have 440g and 220g, and according to their website, smaller stores all along our route sell the 220g only, so we posted our petrol adapter home).

Leaving Lisbon, just outline way points, Constancia, Castela la Vide, Valencia de Alcantara (Spain), Cáceres, Plasencia, aiming for Aldea del Fresno, a little village that is the antipode of a place we stayed in New Zealand. The Portuguese minor roads were fine, and the drivers ok. The Spanish minor roads and drivers are excellent. There are many campsites and cheap hotels (hostals), however, many are shut. We've found the online ability to find telephone numbers essential, so we can call to see who's open. Camping is mostly impractical, too much rain and totally saturated ground. Here in the foothills of the Gredos mountains, we can see snow covered peaks, but only when the clouds lift.

Seems a wonderful area for cycletouring, but a real shame about the weather.

[GideonReade]

A follow-up question. Having bypassed Madrid, we're reverse following the "French way" camino as far as Pamplona, where we will swing north.

Here's the question: N121 to Irun, or N240 to San Sebastian?

We know the N240 meets a disused railway path at Irurtzun, takes us most of the way to San Sebastian. But around SS itself looks a tangle, and of course that route involves backtracking about 80km west, when we're trying to go east.

The N121 looks simpler and more direct. And the profile isn't awful. Does anyone know what it's like to ride? At the weekend, cos, oops, this is tomorrow unless we stop in Pamplona.