Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

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tbessie
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Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby tbessie » 18 Jan 2018, 7:43pm

Hi all...

I've been using Google "My Maps" to route cycle tours, as it's convenient and easy to use.

I've been attempting to plan a route over the Little Saint Bernard Pass, between France and Italy, for a trip this summer.

All the way up to the summit of the pass, Google My Maps let's me create a route. However, once on the Italian side, it won't let me create a route, even manually. It keeps saying "Cannot find route". I also tried a walking route and driving route, and it won't do it.

Does anyone know why this might be? I don't think bikes are forbidden on that side... perhaps Google is lacking in information about that side, or perhaps it is programmed to disallow routing on roads that are currently closed do to weather conditions (covered in snow, etc.).

Has anyone noticed this? And what alternative routing software would they use instead? I happen to like RideWithGPS a lot, so I might try that instead.

- Tim

matt_twam_asi
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby matt_twam_asi » 18 Jan 2018, 8:51pm

tbessie wrote:perhaps it is programmed to disallow routing on roads that are currently closed do to weather conditions (covered in snow, etc.).


I think this is the reason. Google maps says that the D1090 is closed right now. (I'm not sure if the link will work, if it doesn't then just click on the directions button in the vicinity of the pass).

tbessie wrote:Has anyone noticed this? And what alternative routing software would they use instead? I happen to like RideWithGPS a lot, so I might try that instead.


cycle.travel is the forum favourite, and with good reason. :)

pwa
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby pwa » 18 Jan 2018, 9:41pm

Try it on a few other high passes to see if it is just due to them being closed with snow.

tbessie
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby tbessie » 18 Jan 2018, 10:06pm

Thanks for your suggestions and experiments!

Weird that "My Maps" should disallow this, especially since that app is mostly used to create routes/maps for later use, not for getting current conditions. I wonder if that's an oversight, or if they actually want it to work that way...

- Tim

tbessie
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby tbessie » 18 Jan 2018, 10:31pm

I checked out cycle.travel just now; good site - I signed up for it a couple of years ago, but haven't used it since then (I found Google My Maps to be more useful at the time). I think I'll give it a try doing my planning on it. Thanks again!

- Tim

ANTONISH
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby ANTONISH » 19 Jan 2018, 9:04am

As has been already said - Google maps in my experience won't plot a route over a pass that has been closed - usually for snow.
I've ridden over the Petit St Bernard in late June with no problems - nice ride - not too keen on the main road on the Italian side.
Does "Ride with GPS" use google maps? I don't know but the map looks like it.

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 19 Jan 2018, 10:36am

I think RWGPS has two options: Google maps and routing, or OSM maps and routing using Thunderforest basemaps and Graphhopper for routing.
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nickp
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby nickp » 19 Jan 2018, 10:40am

Not only is the road closed in winter, it also forms a ski piste down into La Thuile!

Bez
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby Bez » 19 Jan 2018, 11:00am

Richard Fairhurst wrote:I think RWGPS has two options: Google maps and routing, or OSM maps and routing using Thunderforest basemaps and Graphhopper for routing.


I always got the impression it used Google for routing whichever map you used, but I may be wrong.

It has a third option, though, which is the ability to simply draw lines for sections of the route where the automated routing engine refuses to go. So you always have a fallback option.

eileithyia
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby eileithyia » 19 Jan 2018, 12:23pm

Do you 'need' a route, am guessing once on the road over the pass there is only one way..... Never had a problem with paper mapping not showing a route... :lol:
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

matt_twam_asi
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby matt_twam_asi » 19 Jan 2018, 12:43pm

Richard, since you're here, does cycle.travel apply the access:conditional tag to routing calculations? Rather than prohibiting access like Gmaps, perhaps a warning could be displayed if a route was created using the closed road during the closure time?

No worries if it's not practical or possible to do with the contraction hierarchies precalculation.

tbessie
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby tbessie » 20 Jan 2018, 2:24am

eileithyia wrote:Do you 'need' a route, am guessing once on the road over the pass there is only one way..... Never had a problem with paper mapping not showing a route... :lol:


I don't strictly need one; I wanted to do this online, though, so I could compare the more flat northerly route I was thinking of doing, with one going over lots of mountain passes; I wanted to compare both distance and elevation change over the routes.

- Tim

tbessie
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby tbessie » 20 Jan 2018, 2:27am

Speaking of cycle.travel - one thing I'm frustrated with is that I want to create a route by continually adding end-points, like I can do with Google Maps, rather than give a start and end point, and then start adding in-between points. It would like be nice to be able to choose which 2 points that have already been plotted I want to add a NEW point to. It seems like I can only do: 1. Create start/end points, 2. Start adding points from after the start point, 3. If I make a mistake, I can pop back down the list, but can't remove a specific point, or add a specific point between two existing ones.

Is my perception about these limitations true?

- Tim

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 21 Jan 2018, 6:59pm

You can continually add end-points, no problem. After you've plotted the first two, you'll see an option on the left for "Click map to add more points":

Image

Tick the box so that the option's enabled, and then clicking the map will indeed add more points. You can turn this on permanently from your user preferences (My bike -> Profile -> Preferences) if you like. It's off by default because the number one cause of confusion I saw in new users using the site was adding extra via points by accident when they didn't mean to.

You can always remove a point by clicking it on the map then selecting 'Remove via point'. Similarly, you can add one by clicking the route and 'Add via point', or just by dragging the route.

Matt - it doesn't do anything at present, but I've been thinking of highlighting it in the route instructions, as it does with ferries and off-road sections and things like that. It wouldn't actually affect the routing (as you guessed, the pre-calculated nature of it all makes it difficult to take such restrictions into account) but would at least warn you of any such shenanigans and make it possible to route around them easily. Only trouble is that there's three different sets of OSM tags to parse, and two of those three are fiendishly complex...! But I might have a go at a simplest-thing-that-works.
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Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Google Maps won't let me create a cycle route over Little Saint Bernard Pass???

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 21 Jan 2018, 7:08pm

Bez wrote:
Richard Fairhurst wrote:I think RWGPS has two options: Google maps and routing, or OSM maps and routing using Thunderforest basemaps and Graphhopper for routing.


I always got the impression it used Google for routing whichever map you used, but I may be wrong.


You piqued my curiosity so I've just been playing around in the developer console! It uses their own installation of Graphhopper when you have OSM maps displayed. The URL requested is something like this: https://directions.ridewithgps.com/rout ... 6561211752 - so they're hosting Graphhopper and using the standard (non-speedup) bidirectional A* algorithm. Not sure whether they're using Graphhopper's bike profile out-of-the-box or have tweaked it at all: certainly it doesn't look like they're doing any particularly heavy lifting with the data, but given that RWGPS's shtick is more "Click along the roads you want to travel on" than "let us choose the best roads for you", that's not too surprising.
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