Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

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PAB855
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Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby PAB855 » 3 Apr 2018, 5:07pm

Has anyone been charged a 3% surcharge by a Dutch company on a payment for a holiday (in our case by bike and boat) in Holland if using a credit card and paying for it while in the UK.?

Was it not made EU law in January 2013 that this could not be done throughout the EU ( and beyond)?

Apparently the Dutch are more reluctant to adopt certain ideas regarding using plastic, but if it is the law, there's no argument.

Is there anyone who has the knowhow and authority who can quote chapter and verse on this subject?

The payment is so far for the deposit, but even so it's an extra £69!!!!!! For what

Cheers

teamonster
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby teamonster » 3 Apr 2018, 5:20pm

It was an EU directive that member states are meant to have adopted into National laws by 13th Jan this year. The UK complied, but not all countries had by the deadline, maybe the Dutch haven't yet, suspect they may not be the only ones. (If you want to do some googling, its the Payment Services Directive PSD2)
Last edited by teamonster on 3 Apr 2018, 5:46pm, edited 1 time in total.

mercalia
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby mercalia » 3 Apr 2018, 5:37pm

PAB855 wrote:Has anyone been charged a 3% surcharge by a Dutch company on a payment for a holiday (in our case by bike and boat) in Holland if using a credit card and paying for it while in the UK.?

Was it not made EU law in January 2013 that this could not be done throughout the EU ( and beyond)?

Apparently the Dutch are more reluctant to adopt certain ideas regarding using plastic, but if it is the law, there's no argument.

Is there anyone who has the knowhow and authority who can quote chapter and verse on this subject?

The payment is so far for the deposit, but even so it's an extra £69!!!!!! For what


Cheers


and thats exactly the argument against the surcharge?

try query them and see what they say and tell them its illegal?

£70 would be my whole week food expences on holiday :? :shock:

teamonster
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby teamonster » 3 Apr 2018, 5:51pm

To save you googling further - its' not law in the Netherlands yet, nor in may other European countries (inc Germany, Italy and Spain) it seems ! http://www.hoganlovellspayments.com/PSD2 So unless it was a UK company you were doing business with, looks like it is legal

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mjr
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby mjr » 3 Apr 2018, 5:58pm

PAB855 wrote:Has anyone been charged a 3% surcharge by a Dutch company on a payment for a holiday (in our case by bike and boat) in Holland if using a credit card and paying for it while in the UK.?

Was it not made EU law in January 2013 that this could not be done throughout the EU ( and beyond)?

Apparently the Dutch are more reluctant to adopt certain ideas regarding using plastic, but if it is the law, there's no argument.

Is there anyone who has the knowhow and authority who can quote chapter and verse on this subject?

The payment is so far for the deposit, but even so it's an extra £69!!!!!! For what

No, I've not seen this. No, it's banned since January 2018. And maybe only the consumer protection regulators in each country have authority to ensure compliance. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/c ... dex_en.htm implies that you should contact your "local European Consumer Centre" which following several links( :roll: ) finds at http://www.ukecc.net/

For what indeed - is it clearly expressed on the bill as a surcharge for use of a credit card, rather than for something like use of a non-Eurozone credit card?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Cunobelin
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby Cunobelin » 3 Apr 2018, 6:40pm

The new rules also have teething problems.

Some companies simply stopped using cards and require Bank Transfers for payments instead (HMRC is one of these)

The other dirty trick is if ALL payments have a fee regardless of payment type then they can still charge a fee.

For example. instead of a credit/debit card charge, you now have a "service charge" that applies to cash, credit or debit cards regardless and it is perfectly legal, and a nice little increase in takings as all the cash customers now pay


SO you may find that the company is perfectly within their rights to charge this fee, if they simply word it differently... and are also entitled to pass on any currency transfer fees

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Cunobelin
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby Cunobelin » 3 Apr 2018, 6:57pm

tO clarify the currency charges above.....These are the Lloyds bank example figures

Using credit and debit cards abroad have different charges

For instance you purchase an item for 100 Euros then on a debit card that will be £90.18 and on a Credit card £90.81

If you withdraw 100 Euros in cash then the debit card is £91.81 and the credit card £93.18

There are some advantages' as with the purchase the extra 63p will insure the item if it is lost, stolen or mislaid during the holiday or travelling home

maillotvert
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby maillotvert » 3 Apr 2018, 7:25pm

Basically the law does not let you discriminate against anyone for using a credit card, so a service charge, if levied on all invoices, is legal. You are not allowed to offer a discount for other payment methods either, as that is still discriminatory, or offer a free meal etc etc

Unfortunately the legislation has had the effect of price rises across the board, which affects the consumer adversely rather than protecting them, so it was not very well thought through IMHO.

PAB855
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby PAB855 » 3 Apr 2018, 10:02pm

Thanks for all that information.
I have been trying to find a UK based holiday company instead!

Cheers

willem jongman
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby willem jongman » 7 Apr 2018, 7:20pm

Credit cards are not used much in Holland (e.g. you cannot use them in supermarkets), because we have had a very efficient (and cheap) debit card system for a long time. Similarly, we have never used checks to any serious extent. Personally I think it is only fair that people are charged 3% for credit card use because that is what the credit card company charges the shop. Why do we want to surrender to these large US financial institutions?

Warin61
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby Warin61 » 7 Apr 2018, 11:04pm

If they offered a non surcharge method of payment there would be less anger.
Say a bank transfer?
Or some access to this 'Holland debit card system'" Is this really limited to Holland only? Would be rather restrictive and will discourage tourism.

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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby willem jongman » 8 Apr 2018, 6:18am

Most international debit cards are accepted through Ideal, and also in shops. Moreover all bank transfers are now through internet banking, and that includes international transfers.

m-gineering
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby m-gineering » 9 Apr 2018, 6:33am

willem jongman wrote:Most international debit cards are accepted through Ideal, and also in shops. Moreover all bank transfers are now through internet banking, and that includes international transfers.
within the SEPA zone an international transfer is charged the same as a national one. For Dutch companies that means virtually zero cost. International transfers with a currency transfer are expensive, as the money has to come from somewhere. With inefficient British banks the charges are probably worse, so I see many payments arrive through a service provider with lower rates than the banks for transfers.
Credit cards companies are a last resort, they not only charge a lot when al goes well, but with fraudulent cards or 'customers' playing the system all risks are dumped on the money receiving party.
Marten

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mjr
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby mjr » 9 Apr 2018, 8:59am

m-gineering wrote:within the SEPA zone an international transfer is charged the same as a national one. For Dutch companies that means virtually zero cost. International transfers with a currency transfer are expensive, as the money has to come from somewhere. With inefficient British banks the charges are probably worse, so I see many payments arrive through a service provider with lower rates than the banks for transfers.

I think it's gouging rather than inefficiency. Most sterling transfers go through Faster Payments Service so cost of SEPA transfers isn't a concern big enough for many British customers to choose one bank account over another, so banks see little problem with setting a high fee. :-(

I thought contactless credit card payments were fixed fee too. Are they not in NL?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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willem jongman
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Re: Credit card surcharge by Dutch company - illegal?

Postby willem jongman » 9 Apr 2018, 9:20am

I have no idea. As I said, credit cards are not used much because the alternatives are far more attractive for both consumers and shops. Most people do not have credit cards, and many shops, including supermarkets, do not accept them. Only people like me who travel a lot abroad and have to book hotels have them.