Pashley type bikes

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
StephenW
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by StephenW »

foxyrider wrote: I have ridden a Dutch roadster ... they don't go up hills ...


I think that riding in different positions uses muscles in different ways. Therefore, if someone who is used to a fairly aggressive riding position tries riding in a very upright position, they may be lacking in power because they are not used to it.

Ontherivet77 wrote:However, whatever the bike I'm always fettling with the set up to make it comfortable. With swept back bars I was immediately in a comfy position ...


It seems to me that a more upright position is less sensitive to small adjustments. What I mean is that if you want to ride in aggressive position, everything needs to be in exactly the right place, whereas in an upright position it is not as critical.

I think the preferred position also relates to how hard you want to pedal. For low levels of effort, the aggressive position is not comfortable. The upright position is very comfy at low levels of effort, and is actually OK at higher levels of effort too.
reohn2
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by reohn2 »

On the handlebar issue,I've never been one for "trends" which after all is fashion,I'm more of a(to quote an old song)"If it feels good do it" sort of person.I like drops but not "Waayyy on down"(sorry another old song),preferring them with the tops above the saddle and the drops where I can reach them and ride on them for an hour or so without a crick in my neck or a sore back.
I find that I don't like the drop part of the bars parallel so I splay them out a little by putting the ends in the vice and bending them out a few degrees,I also like wide 46cm bars.When these 'bars are "dialled in" in relation to the saddle and with the hoods in the right position,all day comfort is assured :)

That said I ride sweptback bars on other bikes,Jones bars on the MTB and Humpert Aerowing on the Circe tandem,both bars are well swept back Jones at 45 degrees and Aerowing at 53 degrees,I find these approach the comfort of the hoods position of drops,again when "dialed in" in relation to the saddle.
I find true straights which I have on my Tern folder to be the most uncomfortable and find myself riding with my thumbs on top of the grips as,due to Osteo arthritis in the joint at the base of the thumb,I also have short rubber bar ends fitted for a bit more comfort though they a compromise as I can't reach the brakes or gearlevers without moving back to the straight bar position.

It's all down to what suits the individual but going off what I see on my travels many people never get to the comfort level they should due to current trends/fashions.
Whether that be overweight pop bellied roadies with 'bars 10cm or more below the saddle with little hope of reaching the drops,or dead straight 800cm plus MTB bars which put all the hand pressure onto the thumb-index finger web,that said I could wrong....

Touring is meant to be a pleasant experience,pleasant to me equals comfort and not like walking with a stone in your shoe because some magazine journo says so.

EDITED for typos
Last edited by reohn2 on 13 Jun 2018, 1:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mjr
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by mjr »

pjclinch wrote:Weight spread between seat and pedals is only so much help. On a milking stool my weight is spread between seat and feet, but I'd still much rather be in a decent armchair if it's going to be for any length of time! You actually have to pedal pretty hard to take a significant weight off the seat, or quite deliberately stand on the pedals while free-wheeling.

Well, yes. Why wouldn't you half-stand on the pedals while freewheeling? That's part of riding a bike IMO: the aim is to ride it, not sit on its saddle like a sack of spuds. Maybe no-one's teaching new riders this any more :(

pjclinch wrote:That you can happily do centuries on yours is not indicative of anyone with one "set up right" being able to comfortably do centuries on theirs, or indeed any other sort of bike.

I sort of agree with this, although I suspect most people could build up to a metric century in time and I've seen people with all sorts of health challenges achieve it - but if you can do a century, it'll be more comfortable on a roadster than kissing the stem, although probably noticeably slower mainly due to aerodynamics.
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iandriver
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by iandriver »

Supporter of the A10 corridor cycling campaign serving Royston to Cambridge http://a10corridorcycle.com. Never knew gardening secateurs were an essential part of the on bike tool kit until I took up campaigning.....
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pjclinch
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by pjclinch »

mjr wrote:
pjclinch wrote:Weight spread between seat and pedals is only so much help. On a milking stool my weight is spread between seat and feet, but I'd still much rather be in a decent armchair if it's going to be for any length of time! You actually have to pedal pretty hard to take a significant weight off the seat, or quite deliberately stand on the pedals while free-wheeling.

Well, yes. Why wouldn't you half-stand on the pedals while freewheeling? That's part of riding a bike IMO: the aim is to ride it, not sit on its saddle like a sack of spuds. Maybe no-one's teaching new riders this any more :(


So having paid lots of money for a rigid frame that will take my weight, it's "part of riding it" that I ignore that ability and do unnecessary muscular work in order to bypass it? I do, of course, do this, but only because the alternative is a numb(er) bum. And one of the reasons I tour on a 'bent is the inherent preposterousness of doing unnecessary active work just to avoid being uncomfortable is removed.

As the pro cyclist recovery mantra goes, "don't stand up when you can sit down (and don't sit when you can lay)".

mjr wrote:I sort of agree with this, although I suspect most people could build up to a metric century in time and I've seen people with all sorts of health challenges achieve it - but if you can do a century, it'll be more comfortable on a roadster than kissing the stem, although probably noticeably slower mainly due to aerodynamics.


No, it's horses for courses. For some people bolt upright will be more comfortable, for others a crouch. Of the latter, they'll probably have something of an adaptation to it, particularly greater core strength, and they'll come out more comfortable because it can be the case that sitting on a moderately comfy stool for 10 hours is actually less comfortable in the long run than sitting on a less comfy one for 6. I might ache all over getting off a road bike, but if I've got an hour of four to soak in a nice hot bath having been quicker I'll probably be in better shape than the roadster rider arriving as I get out. On the 'bent I get it all.

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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by Cyril Haearn »

mjr wrote:I've ridden centuries on my Dutchie. I've done multi day tours on it. It's very comfortable if you set it up to be so. Great hub brakes, lowered gearing, sprung saddle... weight spread between saddle and feet, just like every other bike set up right. The hatred and insults directed at them on this forum is mystifying and does people a disservice by deterring them from a life of comfort.

+1
Could we see some pictures, also of your riding position? Diolch
Maybe some hate them, others are just ignorant :?

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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by Cyril Haearn »

iandriver wrote:Well, there is always one https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-25238228

Should one believe the bbc?
Did he really not stop for 770 miles? Anything else wrong in the article, anything right?

My criticism is of the bbc not of our cycling hero
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pwa
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by pwa »

To make discussions like this more interesting we naturally look at extreme cases and end up contrasting a bolt upright position with a head down road race position, but in reality the difference in stance between someone leaning forward a little on an "upright" bike and someone on a traditional drop bar tourer with the bars set level with the saddle is not all that much. For me, leaning forward a bit is how my body wants to go when I'm pushing pedals around. Not really low, just leaning forward a bit. I could get that with all sorts of bars, so my choice of drop bars is more to do with my hands and wrists.
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by Vorpal »

Peopl have done LEJoG on ordinaries (penny farthings). Surely if a person can ride long distance on one of those things, a Pashley is luxurious comfort by comparison. :mrgreen:
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willem jongman
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by willem jongman »

It is all horses for courses. I am Dutch and yes I have used traditional Dutch town bikes for touring, but only in the Netherlands. This is not at all uncommon, as just about everyone in Holland has one. So if you are a sixteen year old intent on going on your first cycle touring/camping trip without your parents, this is the bike that you take. On my first trip I managed 160 km a day. Similarly, many families with young kids go on family camping trips with their normal city bikes, and as long as you stay in Holland that is perfectly fine - the kids will love it. You are not going to break any records, but it can be done (we did it). The limitation is, of course, that these bikes are not suitable for anything other than flat terrain - you will not get to the top of the hill without walking, and going down may be too fast, given the type of brakes they have.
I wrote a manual for the Dutch Cyle Touring Club (de Wereldfietser) on what you need for a first tour, and what you can do with the bike and the camping gear that you may already own, and what you may need to buy (in Dutch, but one of these days I may do a translation): https://www.wereldfietser.nl/docs/de-ee ... kantie.pdf The point that I try to make is that as long as the destination and bike and gear are matched, you may not need to buy that much for a first time. Admittedly many Dutch families have at least some half decent camping gear, because camping is very common, and not viewed as something you only do if you cannot afford anything else.
debbas1000
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by debbas1000 »

Late to this party, but wanted to contribute. I've been riding Pashley ladies cycles (3 speed Princess, and now a 3 speed Sonnet) for something approaching 35 years. The furthest I've ridden was when I completed the London to Brighton on my Princess (with basket on the front). I was part of a team of 12 formed by my employers. Most of the team had to go out and buy new bicycles (I was the only one who cycled regularly) and most were of the hybrid, multi-geared variety, my bike was my daily commuter and certainly the scruffiest of the bunch, in a classy sort of shabby chic way!

I was not the last over the line at Brighton amongst my team, but I was certainly the only one who could sit down for the fish and chip supper we enjoyed on the promenade without wincing! No joke - some of my team were almost raw from a few hours on their modern plastic saddles.

Roadsters are slow. But you will get there, and you'll get there in comfort. Hours on the saddle are irrelevant as you are sitting on a Brooks sprung job and you can ride all day and night without compressing anything noticeably. Hills? Yep, I walked up Ditchling Beacon - there were too many lycra clad roadies in my way to get up sufficient steam on my little tank which, incidentally, isn't that bad on hills if you lean slightly BACK and push the bike in front of you - effectively winching yourself and the bike up the incline. You develop thigh muscles to rival Chris Hoy's.

Slow? Yes, but probably the best bike in the world for retirement when you want to do a tour of a country and don't have to get back to the desk by x date. They are also built like tanks with their lugged steel frames and maintenance amounts to giving the bike a wash before you go and ... well, that's about it really. Hub brakes, hub gears, top quality components. The build quality inspires confidence. Wonderful machines and one of the few machines the UK still does really well.

If you have to do LeJog in time to be back at work by Monday, well okay, you'll need something a little racier. Any tour of the UK I do in retirement will either be on my Pash, or on my Brompton M3L, another strong and game little Britisher with room for Marmite sarnies and ginger beer in abundance. :)
truckturner
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Re: Pashley type bikes

Post by truckturner »

I borrowed a Pashley Sovereign tourer from my bike shop. Unbelivbly comfortable puts you level with 4x4 windows glides down the road and surprisingly agile. No problem with fit etc just goes on inside leg. To me this is an every day utility bike for decent commutes with your lunch on the pannier and for going to the shop etc. Its also not a target for thieves if you need to leave it. I have a number of touring bikes but I would be happy to use a Sovereign but when I tour I slow the pace of life and enjoy the ride. You really have to ride it to believe it like the op did with the Princess. I ended up buying an Adventure Double Shot for my utility bike mainly on price which is ok but not in the same league. In reply to your question about anyone done any serious touring on a Pashley type bike you might want to look at Hienz Stucke's 3 speed 23 KG roadster that he rode round the world for the best part of 30 years.

Cheers Peter
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