Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

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mjr
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby mjr » 20 Jun 2018, 12:31pm

crazydave789 wrote:I can break up any mobile phone and make at least 3 weapons out of it. not to mention stuff around your seat.

You are Jason Bourne and had better go hide again now.
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crazydave789
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby crazydave789 » 20 Jun 2018, 1:12pm

mjr wrote:
crazydave789 wrote:I can break up any mobile phone and make at least 3 weapons out of it. not to mention stuff around your seat.

You are Jason Bourne and had better go hide again now.


after 911 they stuck a regular soldier in a standard passenger seat and he could make half a dozen improvised weapons within arms reach - improvise adapt and overcome. the reason you have to take your shoes off is because metal detectors are next to useless below knee level and hiking shoes have a steel shank in them along with all those eyelets. someone walked into the whitehouse with a pistol tied to a bit of string down inside his trousers at shin height.

I've carried a penknife or multitool daily since I was 7 or so and having used them daily in that time I do feel somewhat naked without one, dealing with things becomes a chore.

the uselessness of it all is astounding, I was all but strip searched once going into the passenger area then had the opportunity to buy full kitchen knife blocks and pen knives in the duty free areas. they say no liquids then sell you litres of spirits in a glass bottle. its no smoking but you are allowed half a dozen lighters and matches on your person or baggage. meanwhile most hijackings have taken place because the service crews put the stuff on the plane for them.

it is not designed to make you safer but to make you feel unsafe so you accept more rules.

london knife crime would go down if people felt they could intervene or protect themselves without getting done for assault,

considering how many of us carry them as spares - there used to be a south african gang called the spokeys - they used to hide pavement sharpened spokes down inside the seams of their trousers - look at the double stitching on a pair of jeans and it would look like a rivet. apparently they were very effective. along with spare cables and D locks half the bike is an offensive weapon. I watched a fight between two road riders once in france, they took their front wheels off and laid into each other with them, another time I saw a fight where they snapped car aerials off and used them like whips. in london the dispatch riders used to keep their D locks between their legs on the seatpost to hit bad drivers and muggers with, many a York taxi had a dent in the roof or door from mine.

AlaninWales
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby AlaninWales » 20 Jun 2018, 2:22pm

Psamathe wrote:
simonhill wrote:Well, despite all these stringent new security checks, no one has actually had anything taken off them when boarding a ferry.....

Not a ferry but an airport (and security not customs) but I used to have a shackle attached to my camera bag (shackle as boat shackle as photo below) and airport security confiscated it on the basis it could be used as a weapon. I questioned this and they explained it could be slipped over one finger and used as a knuckle duster. Tours airport 2004. Good job I wasn't carrying a fountain pen or .....
Image

Ian

Good job you weren't wearing a diamond ring or carrying a skipping rope in your luggage (both meet the definitions of 'offensive weapon' in the UK) :roll: .

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foxyrider
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby foxyrider » 20 Jun 2018, 2:31pm

Slowroad wrote:
So remember, no matter how daft it seems it's their call and if they don't like the look of your jam butty then the butty has to go.

I was really rather upset when a pot of lingonberry jam was confiscated from me on the way back from Oslo. It was for my dad, who can't fly abroad any more. You just don't think that jam is one of the liquids, gels, etc which you're not allowed to take on planes.
(Sorry about the diversion from the subject!)

Do they not sell it at your local IKEA? Shelf loads of it at ours :lol:
Convention? what's that then?

Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby Bmblbzzz » 20 Jun 2018, 3:01pm

crazydave789 wrote:... many a York taxi had a dent in the roof or door from mine.

Hmm.

PJ520
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby PJ520 » 20 Jun 2018, 3:12pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:
crazydave789 wrote:... many a York taxi had a dent in the roof or door from mine.

Hmm.
My thoughts exactly.
"An expert is a person who knows some of the worst mistakes to be made in a subject and how to avoid those mistakes" - Niels Bohr

botty
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby botty » 20 Jun 2018, 4:21pm

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q337.htm?letter=K

This FAQ contains the reply I quote.

brooksby
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby brooksby » 20 Jun 2018, 4:59pm

whoof wrote:
botty wrote: The home office web site even says carrying a locking blade knife is acceptable for example when needing to prepare food when backpacking which in my mind equates to cycle touring off the beaten track.



Do you have a link to this page. It might be useful (or probably not) if challenged. The only one I can find (Police and Gov.UK) give the following examples for 'good reasons' for carrying a knife.

Examples of good reasons to carry a knife in public can include:
taking knives you use at work to and from work
taking knives to a gallery or museum to be exhibited
the knife is going to be used for theatre, film, television, historical reenactment or religious purposes, e.g. the kirpan some Sikhs carry

https://www.police.uk/crime-prevention- ... f-weapons/

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives


I always have a Leatherman with a locking blade in my tool roll at the bottom of my pannier. It also has a saw blade, which I used the other evening on my commute home, to remove a large branch which had fallen across the cycle path (since it had been there several days already and the council clearly couldn't be @rsed). I wonder if that counts as a good reason to have it?

thirdcrank
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Jun 2018, 5:42pm

brooksby wrote:... I wonder if that counts as a good reason to have it?


Under the criminal law, it's up to the prosecution to prove that you shouldn't have something. Taking it as luggage on say an aircraft is covered by more specific regulations and "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't come into it. Put another way, something which applies in one set of circumstances doesn't necessarily apply in another.

botty
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby botty » 20 Jun 2018, 5:54pm

Somewhere in that ask the police website it covers "carrying just in case". Your saw/locks knife is OK if you were going to remove the branch you knew was there. Just carrying "in case I come across a fallen branch" is not sufficient to show you have a reason to carry.

crazydave789
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby crazydave789 » 20 Jun 2018, 6:38pm

PJ520 wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:
crazydave789 wrote:... many a York taxi had a dent in the roof or door from mine.

Hmm.
My thoughts exactly.


don't knock it till you've been on the receiving end of a moron in a taxi cutting you up so fine you nearly crash or skipping traffic lights which was also very common late at night when the clubs kicked out. their reward was smack on the roof when I caught up with them and scuttled off before they know what happened.

anger managment wasn't invented back then nor was road rage.

crazydave789
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby crazydave789 » 20 Jun 2018, 6:49pm

AlaninWales wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
simonhill wrote:Well, despite all these stringent new security checks, no one has actually had anything taken off them when boarding a ferry.....

Not a ferry but an airport (and security not customs) but I used to have a shackle attached to my camera bag (shackle as boat shackle as photo below) and airport security confiscated it on the basis it could be used as a weapon. I questioned this and they explained it could be slipped over one finger and used as a knuckle duster. Tours airport 2004. Good job I wasn't carrying a fountain pen or .....
Image

Ian

Good job you weren't wearing a diamond ring or carrying a skipping rope in your luggage (both meet the definitions of 'offensive weapon' in the UK) :roll: .


they charged one bloke during nottinghill for carrying a basketball according to some legal types I knew at the time. two girls were arrested under the anti terror law at a new labour party conference for wearing T shirts. they booked a heckler under the same laws.

in the book version of 'on her majestys secret service' Bond comes out swinging with his metal strapped watch and safety razor as knuckledusters.

anything is a weapon if you want it to be, pubs and clubs frisk you at the door then allow you buy as many as you want inside.

whoof
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby whoof » 21 Jun 2018, 9:00am

botty wrote:https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q337.htm?letter=K

This FAQ contains the reply I quote.


Thanks

whoof
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby whoof » 21 Jun 2018, 9:08am

thirdcrank wrote:
brooksby wrote:... I wonder if that counts as a good reason to have it?


Under the criminal law, it's up to the prosecution to prove that you shouldn't have something.


No, in this case it's the opposite. If you are stopped by the Police and searched and they find you are carrying a lock-knife, which also includes many Leathermans they may charge you with the offence of carrying an offensive weapon. If prosecuted the prosecution will have demonstrated that you have committed the offence because you had the knife. It would then be up to you provide a defence that it was reasonable to have such a knife in your possession.

thirdcrank
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Re: Customs madness and 'dangerous objects'

Postby thirdcrank » 21 Jun 2018, 9:25am

I'm losing the plot here.

The point I'm trying to make is that in the various security situations where this or that is prohibited and so is likely to be seized - eg prior to boarding an aircraft - the criminal law concepts don't apply. The fact that you may be a member of an historical re-enactment society who regularly plays a pike-man and ipso facto has good reason to trudge round muddy fields in doublet and hose brandishing a pike won't get you on a plane with it.