France & getting by with limited french
Re: France & getting by with limited french
My advice (based on having moved to France, no English in the area and with limited French language skills) - never ask if anybody speaks English.
Learn to say "I speak a very little French" (in French) and launch into whatever limited skills you have. You will be forgiven for anything if you try and say whatever you need to in French. If things become impossible and the other person speaks Engish then they will switch to english but you will have gained their support/help/cooperation by having tried and not launched into "Do you speak English"/"parlez vous Anglais sil vous plais".
Ian
Learn to say "I speak a very little French" (in French) and launch into whatever limited skills you have. You will be forgiven for anything if you try and say whatever you need to in French. If things become impossible and the other person speaks Engish then they will switch to english but you will have gained their support/help/cooperation by having tried and not launched into "Do you speak English"/"parlez vous Anglais sil vous plais".
Ian
Re: France & getting by with limited french
meic wrote:Expecting to pick up a language without study is an illusion.
An illusion which billions of people turn to reality all over the world, I was able to speak English before I went to school. My son passed his German GCSE just through having a German mother, with no German lessons. I expect that my daughter will do the same.
In my experience learning through immersion and exposure is far quicker and more effective than formal study.
When I lived in the Netherlands I used to go scuba diving with a plumber from my local club and he spoke fluent english. His fluency surprised me and I asked him how he learnt it and he said "sub-titled films". Then (maybe still now) Dutch TV showed English language films with Dutch sub-titles (whereas Germany showed dubbed films).
I've found with both French and Spanish that sub-titles films are a great help.
Ian
Re: France & getting by with limited french
Yes, I've learnt some Swedish by watching Swedish television subtitled in Norwegian
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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Re: France & getting by with limited french
Thanks very much. No I am a historian, but I worked in Cambridge for three years in the seventies, and later spent sabbaticals, both there and elsewhere, in English speaking countries. I am good at languages, and I like to be quite fluent. However, my German and French are not nearly as good as my English, but at least the pronunciation is good, which more than perfect grammar helps being understood. After a few days in England, I can go undetected as a foreigner for at least a few hours. In part that is helped by knowing local habits, like ordering real ale in the pub rather than lager as most of my compatriots would do. And all my writing is in English.
We did not have tv when I was young, and I never watched it. We do indeed still have subtitles, but I am not sure they help much, other than that you develop an ear for American English.
We did not have tv when I was young, and I never watched it. We do indeed still have subtitles, but I am not sure they help much, other than that you develop an ear for American English.
Last edited by willem jongman on 28 Aug 2018, 2:12pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: France & getting by with limited french
Psamathe wrote:meic wrote:Expecting to pick up a language without study is an illusion.
An illusion which billions of people turn to reality all over the world, I was able to speak English before I went to school. My son passed his German GCSE just through having a German mother, with no German lessons. I expect that my daughter will do the same.
In my experience learning through immersion and exposure is far quicker and more effective than formal study.
When I lived in the Netherlands I used to go scuba diving with a plumber from my local club and he spoke fluent english. His fluency surprised me and I asked him how he learnt it and he said "sub-titled films". Then (maybe still now) Dutch TV showed English language films with Dutch sub-titles (whereas Germany showed dubbed films).
I've found with both French and Spanish that sub-titles films are a great help.
Ian
when you are bombarded with english pop, english movies and english TV it is a lot easier to pick it up. if only all TV was like Shogun which had half the school learning japanese for the playground. I've been in a czech nightclub with the whole room singing along in perfect english.
school room languages are a lot lot slower than the real world.
Re: France & getting by with limited french
Psamathe wrote:My advice (based on having moved to France, no English in the area and with limited French language skills) - never ask if anybody speaks English.
Learn to say "I speak a very little French" (in French) and launch into whatever limited skills you have. You will be forgiven for anything if you try and say whatever you need to in French. If things become impossible and the other person speaks English then they will switch to english but you will have gained their support/help/cooperation by having tried and not launched into "Do you speak English"/"parlez vous Anglais sil vous plais".
Ian
This. E.g. "je m'excuse, mais je ne parle pas français" followed by an apologetic expression and "...anglais?" is a lot more polite than a straight interrogation as to their language skills. A friend of mine has successfully navigated France on several occasions with nothing but smiles and a battery of infinitives uttered in his Borders accent. That, and a gift for mime.
Have we got time for another cuppa?
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Re: France & getting by with limited french
On a cycling theme, the use of English as the lingua franca is apparent in post-race interviews. Once upon a time, it was traditional for these to be conducted in the language of the area where the interview was taking place. There were some bitter feuds in Belgium over Flemish versus French. With the initial growth of the English-speaking contingent - largely American - the French reporters would object very loudly to answers in English but now, many of the interviews are in English as a matter of course and a lot of riders seem very fluent. I fancy that it's only Brits who are expected to have a go in French. Perhaps the commercial imperative of being accessible to an American audience plays a part here.
Re: France & getting by with limited french
Does anyone remember an English football manager that for some unknown reason, when he was interviewed on French TV (he couldn't speak French of course) he spoke English in a clumsy French accent, reminiscent of Allo, Allo!
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Re: France & getting by with limited french
robing wrote:Does anyone remember an English football manager that for some unknown reason, when he was interviewed on French TV (he couldn't speak French of course) he spoke English in a clumsy French accent, reminiscent of Allo, Allo!
Most of the football managers now speak a colourful international English, Plus One!
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Re: France & getting by with limited french
Interesting Euro-centric replies when I asked which language to learn - German, French, Dutch and Spanish offered.
Not over much use for me who tours mostly in Asia. I'm sorry but apart from a few words of wherever I am its basically going to be English. This is particularly for the written - just have a look at the Burmese script - looks like broken spaghetti rings all lined up. Chinese is a bit easier as you can copy the characters and show them eg for place names. I sometimes draw little pictures eg a train or bus etc.
I did used to speak good French and have used it a few times in Asia, but bar once it was always to translate for French people. Some of whom mistakenly believe French will still be spoken in places like Vietnam and Cambodia.
Spanish is very widely used - but only in S America, where it is essential (apart from Brazil of course).
Not over much use for me who tours mostly in Asia. I'm sorry but apart from a few words of wherever I am its basically going to be English. This is particularly for the written - just have a look at the Burmese script - looks like broken spaghetti rings all lined up. Chinese is a bit easier as you can copy the characters and show them eg for place names. I sometimes draw little pictures eg a train or bus etc.
I did used to speak good French and have used it a few times in Asia, but bar once it was always to translate for French people. Some of whom mistakenly believe French will still be spoken in places like Vietnam and Cambodia.
Spanish is very widely used - but only in S America, where it is essential (apart from Brazil of course).
Re: France & getting by with limited french
Europe is much closer, some people even think that we are part of it! So we have much easier and frequent exposure and use of European languages.
I did learn Bahasa in the last millennium, now totally forgotten as it is too far away to visit easily.
What is more, I can no longer read my diaries of my time there as I wrote them in Bahasa for the practice!
Spanish is also forgotten.
Very much "use it or lose it" for me with languages.
I did learn Bahasa in the last millennium, now totally forgotten as it is too far away to visit easily.
What is more, I can no longer read my diaries of my time there as I wrote them in Bahasa for the practice!
Spanish is also forgotten.
Very much "use it or lose it" for me with languages.
Yma o Hyd
Re: France & getting by with limited french
Spanish is useful in the Americas, and French is useful in some parts of Africa, and Canada.
So, not necessarily Eurocentric, but yes, ignoring Asian languages, of which Chinese is likely the most useful.
So, not necessarily Eurocentric, but yes, ignoring Asian languages, of which Chinese is likely the most useful.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Re: France & getting by with limited french
Audax67 wrote: A friend of mine has successfully navigated France on several occasions with nothing but smiles and a battery of infinitives uttered in his Borders accent. That, and a gift for mime.
It also helps being on a bicycle, that alone breaks down the barriers in France I find.
In Germany I was advised to talk with anyone under the age of 30 as they will speak English. I speak limited German and this held true so no issues there. I found that younger Germans were more keen to demonstrate their English skills than actually assist you in speaking German. I was also mistaken for a Dutch cyclist on numerous occasions.
In France everything is more relaxed and almost the polar opposite from Germany and I welcome that. I've attempted to learn French but without doubt I've learnt more on campsites, in supermarkets and just pedalling around.
Re: France & getting by with limited french
In Germany I was advised to talk with anyone under the age of 30 as they will speak English
I would have thought that advice was twenty years out of date. Anybody under 55 will speak English.
Yma o Hyd
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Re: France & getting by with limited french
meic wrote:In Germany I was advised to talk with anyone under the age of 30 as they will speak English
I would have thought that advice was twenty years out of date. Anybody under 55 will speak English.
Except in the East, they had to learn Russian there
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies