Planning our first small Tour ( novice cyclists )

[pjclinch]

looking on the net saw a few blogs of people bike packing with what looks like MTB's would getting a MTB be better vaule for money, theres a couple of deals online atm ( saw via hot deals )

Bikepacking on MTBs is for people going off road with a weight fetish. While MTBs are great for off road, using them for on-road on-road is like a long drive on a motorway in an old Land Rover Defender: it'll do it, but it won't be a very good way of doing it.

And Bikepacking stuff is New and Trendy, and therefor generally expensive. So all the money you save on the bike you spend on the luggage.

have no idea if these bikes are any good or not, last thing i want is a bike not able to handle the distance, but i have heard bad things about halfords.
with so many different categories of bikes on the web stores it is so hard to even know where to start looking! Is there any category of bike that I should be googling for, when i google touring bikes I tend to get bikes way out my price range come up, would I be best looking for gravel bikes or adventurer bikes, hybrids????

Halfords is like most other shops: as good as the staff in it. Consequently some are ignorant box-shifters and some are very good. The range of kit goes from tat to amazing.

I would guess your best bet is a hybrid, which is a general purpose jack-of-all-trades. I would avoid suspension (most sus is for off-road lumpy, where it is great, but on road it generally adds cost, weight and complexity for little return. Road-specific sus (e.g. Moulton) is real engineering and costs real money. For touring it needs to take a rack and mudguards if you want to equate touring with comfort. If you buy a bike with these fitted it is usually cheaper than retro-fitting them. If you're new to cycling I'd avoid drop handlebars as they are an acquired taste. Certainly worth bearing in mind for your next, more specialist bike, but I wouldn't start there.
It wouldn't be perfect, but given sensible tyres it'll do most things you'd want to do entirely acceptably. Worry about specific niches when you've ridden far enough to know about them and that you want to follow them. Think of a hybrid as the cycling equivalent of the family hatchback of the motoring market. Nobody buys a basic Astra because it's cool and trendy, but Vauxhall shift a lot of them because they do most things okay.

Pete.

[mjr]

Why are these threads like pulling teeth?

Newcomers seem to assume that everyone remembers everything they've written before, while veterans seem to forget that you can click someone's username and then "Search user's posts" to see what they've posted before - but that won't help you here because chrismisterx's first posts are in another place:

"My wife's bike is a Dawes bike looks really old but works better than mine, brakes work at least lol.
Mine is an old raleigh bike, has been fine to get me able to relearn how to ride."

[Ivor Tingting]

I think your long term plans are brilliant. I wouldn't obsess about the bike. I started touring with camping kit last year using my 15 year old Raleigh hybrid. No problems at all. You have a great future and my best wishes.

I just worry about the size of your project. Would a more modest beginning be better? A couple of trial nights somewhere nearer home? Perhaps use the train for some of the journey (although that is a whole new challenge and obviously extra cost, mitigated by less nights accommodation).

Thank you, it does seem daunting more so when I look at the map The main reason for the trip to north scotland is to visit her parents ( both in there late 70's and been having some health challenges ) I Do think the idea of a train to cut out part of the journey is a good idea if after some training we find it is a challenge too far, a quick google shows a train to Inverkeithing only takes a couple of hours costs around £60 and would save a large chunk of the peddling leaving more time to enjoy the peddle in scotland.

I again understand about the bike but have to hold my hands up, keen to have a shinny new bike, will be my first ever new bike and want it to be perfect lol, i admit i am like a kid with this

Welcome to the world of cycling. As per the post by eli ...... on first page you can't go wrong with Decathlon. They are a step up from Halfords.
I wouldn't spend a fortune on a new bike or kit as you don't know whether you or your wife will take to your new hobby. Most seasoned cycle tourists on loaded bikes are pleased to average 10mph for a day. What ever bike you get make sure it fits you. I would suggest not camping on this first trip as one the extra weight of carrying camping gear but secondly it potentially could add another layer of misery if the weather is poor. Also BnBs are cheaper with a couple as you effectively share the cost. Keep your daily mileage lower around 30-35 miles. If you find you can ride more then these are miles in the bank and gain you time. Prepare for poor weather. But don't carry too much stuff. The three basic errors for first time cycle tourists is that they ride a bike that does not fit, their mileage targets are far too high and they carry far too much stuff. Maybe you could ride part of the way and make use of trains where you don't feel up to riding? You don't want to punish yourself on your first tour. You will want to quit after your second day. Don't. Good luck.

Also Scotland in May on the west coast and Highlands can mean midges. You do not want to be camping.

[chrismisterx]

I'm guessing the OP already has some sort of bike for the 35 milers done so far. What is it?

Why are these threads like pulling teeth?

yes sorry about that, as mentioned above I joined two forums and have been asking questions between the two, sort of missing out bits and pieces

Anyway here is a little bit of history.....



I had an old 2nd hand bike when i was a kid many moons ago which after a few short weeks got nicked, didnt bother with a bike after that, fast forward 35 years or so and we decided to give the cycling lark a go.

The bike I have is an old Raleigh Ascender, from 1993 I think, steel frame. it had until 3 weeks ago all the parts from the day it left the factory, it cost me £25 for both our bikes, my wifes is a dawes street lite I think? again from around the early 1990's, they had sit in a guys garage for years and offered them to us for £12.50 a bike just cant grumble really.

On my bike the brakes where shot ( had to use my feet ) gears didnt work well ( only the middle gear worked ) and the tyres had holes in, but i used it for a couple of weeks until i was sure I wanted to go cycling, so I took it to my local bike shop and paid £70 for new brakes, new tyres, fixed the missing bolts, fixed the gears etc, so now it rides like a dream compared to before. What a difference having 15 gears compared to 5 makes hehe.

This is the bike before the repairs.

_DSC_0047 by Christopher Telford, on Flickr

I like the bike, got quite fond of it and have wondered if it could be brought upto spec, but just thought it would be cheaper to buy a new bike.

Again sorry for not being very thorough it most make helping newbies very difficult.

[eileithyia]

Well personally I would not ride it, especially with that awful saddle in that position... but it looks as though it would cope with a first tour before you start spending lots of money on something you might not use if you find you do not enjoy touring.

Looking at the saddle brings me to another thought; saddles, rears and clothing.. make sure the saddle is comfortable enough for you to cope with riding the distances you are planning. Make sure you have clean shorts for each day (or wash through but again you will need a minimum of 2 pairs), keep the rear clean, and ensure some decent quality padded shorts. I well remember those early cycling days when riding daily was not possible until the weekend or longer tour. First day was fine, lowering yourself back on to the saddle the next day .... less so, until the contact points became used to each other again...

[chrismisterx]

Well personally I would not ride it, especially with that awful saddle in that position... but it looks as though it would cope with a first tour before you start spending lots of money on something you might not use if you find you do not enjoy touring.

Looking at the saddle brings me to another thought; saddles, rears and clothing.. make sure the saddle is comfortable enough for you to cope with riding the distances you are planning. Make sure you have clean shorts for each day (or wash through but again you will need a minimum of 2 pairs), keep the rear clean, and ensure some decent quality padded shorts. I well remember those early cycling days when riding daily was not possible until the weekend or longer tour. First day was fine, lowering yourself back on to the saddle the next day .... less so, until the contact points became used to each other again...

Yes I have a love hate relationship with the saddle, its old and has a split at the side, but thought if i was getting a new bike I didn't want to spend anymore money on that bike, that saddle is 25 years old i think hehe, now my body, mainly my undercarriage thinks i need a new saddle asap, boy does it get sore!

saddle position is something else i really don't know much about, the bike is pretty much set up as I got it from the last owner, I have so much to learn over the next few months!

[simonhill]

If that bike fits you and the frame is sound, it could easily make a good tourer and general purpose bike. I was thinking of suggesting going the old MTB route, but you are already more than half way there.

Although I now ride something more upmarket, I have previosly toured tens of thou kms on modified MTBs. As have plenty of others on this forum.

Do you have a good LBS ( local bike shop)? If so maybe speak to them about replacing and upgrading. No need to do too much straight away, just replace with good quality stuff as it wears out.

If everything is running OK, first off I would get a new rack - that one doesn't look very strong and also a new saddle.

Maybe get the shop to check the wheels - spoke tension and hub bearings. Then off you go.

Although I think 85 mp day is excessive, 350 miles is no distance for a bIke in reasonable condition.

Sorted.

[Oldjohnw]

My 15 year old hybrid. I doubt it's better than yours.

[pjclinch]

The bike should be fine, really. For getting the setup right look at 531colin's setup notes which you'll find at http://wheel-easy.org.uk/uploads/documents/Bike%20Set%20Up%202017a.pdf.

You seem worried about the brakes... there's nothing fundamentally wrong with cantilever brakes, so replace the blocks and inner and outer cables and they should be fine.

Saddles are a personal thing, and if you have one that works for you it can be moved from bike to bike. New bike saddles tend to be fairly generic and not necessarily to the taste of your particular bum, especially for hours at a time. So don't worry about getting a new one for this bike.

You've already got a rack and mudguards, and a big gear range to get you up hills. Get some proper miles in on this and that will inform (a) if you need a new bike and (b) if you do then what it might be much, much better than reading blogs and forums.

Pete.

[Vorpal]

Most of what I would say has already been said, except for one thing...

One of the advantages of a touring bike and some older mountain bikes & hybrids (it looks like this applies to the bike the OP has) is a slightly longer wheelbase.

The implication of this may not be immediately obvious, but on a bike with a shorter wheelbase, the panniers must be mounted quite high & back, in order to avoid kicking them. On a bike with a long wheelbase, the weight can go right over the rear axle, where it belongs. The further back the weight is, the more it affects the handling of the bike.

Touring bikes are designed to accomodate luggage on the rear (and sometimes front) rack. An urban bike may not be, and may consequently handle poorly with a load on the rack.

So, my advice is to use what you've got, get it serviced. If you need another bike, get a second hand tourer. If you can't do that, pay attention to the wheelbase, even taking some panniers with bike shopping, if necessary.

Also, it may be worth getting some winter tyres (and considering space for them on any purchases), so that winter weather doesn't interrupt your training too much.

[mjr]

You can move saddles between bikes with similar riding positions fairly successfully but it doesn't really work with very different positions, such as putting your road bike saddle on an upright folding bike.

[Ivor Tingting]

I'm guessing the OP already has some sort of bike for the 35 milers done so far. What is it?

Why are these threads like pulling teeth?

yes sorry about that, as mentioned above I joined two forums and have been asking questions between the two, sort of missing out bits and pieces

Anyway here is a little bit of history.....



I had an old 2nd hand bike when i was a kid many moons ago which after a few short weeks got nicked, didnt bother with a bike after that, fast forward 35 years or so and we decided to give the cycling lark a go.

The bike I have is an old Raleigh Ascender, from 1993 I think, steel frame. it had until 3 weeks ago all the parts from the day it left the factory, it cost me £25 for both our bikes, my wifes is a dawes street lite I think? again from around the early 1990's, they had sit in a guys garage for years and offered them to us for £12.50 a bike just cant grumble really.

On my bike the brakes where shot ( had to use my feet ) gears didnt work well ( only the middle gear worked ) and the tyres had holes in, but i used it for a couple of weeks until i was sure I wanted to go cycling, so I took it to my local bike shop and paid £70 for new brakes, new tyres, fixed the missing bolts, fixed the gears etc, so now it rides like a dream compared to before. What a difference having 15 gears compared to 5 makes hehe.

This is the bike before the repairs.

_DSC_0047 by Christopher Telford, on Flickr

I like the bike, got quite fond of it and have wondered if it could be brought upto spec, but just thought it would be cheaper to buy a new bike.

Again sorry for not being very thorough it most make helping newbies very difficult.

Yes it does! Drip drip of information. You basically need to get the help of some one who knows what they are talking about to help you all the way to your destination. But who is going to want to spend oodles of time with you for nothing? Maybe you should sign up with a bike tour company such as Headwater. They provide and arrange everything, transport your luggage and are there if you decide to abandon. There are other operators. I would ditch the idea of cycling to Scotland and back in May and consider some thing far less demanding as I see it you are setting yourself up to fail. I took some friends cycling mid Wales through the Cambrian mountains this summer. They were probably about your age, fit healthy, etc., going to gym regularly all that sort of stuff. They wanted to do just what you wanted and wanted me to tag along (guide them). It was clear that they didn't have the cycling legs required for the sort of distances they imagined they wanted to cover let alone get up the first gentle hill on their loaded bikes. After the end of the second day they had had enough and said they were going home! I could stay and continue if I wanted. It was quite an awkward moment. I tried to convince them to continue but they were having none of it. As I had travelled to Wales with them I felt I had to return with them. It takes a long time to build the strength and stamina in your legs to ride long distances every day on a loaded bike. I think your idea of cycling 350 miles in 3 days with little experience of cycle touring hoping you'll get fit in time before now and then through the winter and early spring is totally unachievable. As I say select a less demanding route and give yourself much more time. You seem to be concentrating on yourself. How often does your wife ride and typically what sort of distance? You don't want your trip to end in divorce!

[Ivor Tingting]

I'm guessing the OP already has some sort of bike for the 35 milers done so far. What is it?

Why are these threads like pulling teeth?

yes sorry about that, as mentioned above I joined two forums and have been asking questions between the two, sort of missing out bits and pieces

Anyway here is a little bit of history.....



I had an old 2nd hand bike when i was a kid many moons ago which after a few short weeks got nicked, didnt bother with a bike after that, fast forward 35 years or so and we decided to give the cycling lark a go.

The bike I have is an old Raleigh Ascender, from 1993 I think, steel frame. it had until 3 weeks ago all the parts from the day it left the factory, it cost me £25 for both our bikes, my wifes is a dawes street lite I think? again from around the early 1990's, they had sit in a guys garage for years and offered them to us for £12.50 a bike just cant grumble really.

On my bike the brakes where shot ( had to use my feet ) gears didnt work well ( only the middle gear worked ) and the tyres had holes in, but i used it for a couple of weeks until i was sure I wanted to go cycling, so I took it to my local bike shop and paid £70 for new brakes, new tyres, fixed the missing bolts, fixed the gears etc, so now it rides like a dream compared to before. What a difference having 15 gears compared to 5 makes hehe.

This is the bike before the repairs.

_DSC_0047 by Christopher Telford, on Flickr

I like the bike, got quite fond of it and have wondered if it could be brought upto spec, but just thought it would be cheaper to buy a new bike.

Again sorry for not being very thorough it most make helping newbies very difficult.

Yes it does! Drip drip of information. So does that bike fit you? What size frame is it and what is your height, etc? You basically need to get the help of some one who knows what they are talking about to help you all the way to your destination. But who is going to want to spend oodles of time with you for nothing? Perhaps revisit your LBS for further guidance? Maybe you should sign up with a bike tour company such as Headwater? They provide and arrange everything, transport your luggage and are there if you decide to abandon. There are other operators. I would ditch the idea of cycling to Scotland and back in May and consider some thing far less demanding as I see it you are setting yourself up to fail. I took some friends cycling mid Wales through the Cambrian mountains this summer. They were probably about your age, fit healthy, etc., going to gym regularly all that sort of stuff. They wanted to do just what you wanted and wanted me to tag along (guide them). It was clear that they didn't have the cycling legs required for the sort of distances they imagined they wanted to cover let alone get up the first gentle hill on their loaded bikes. After the end of the second day they had had enough and said they were going home! I could stay and continue if I wanted. It was quite an awkward moment. I tried to convince them to continue but they were having none of it. As I had travelled to Wales with them I felt I had to return with them. It takes a long time to build the strength and stamina in your legs to ride long distances every day on a loaded bike. Sorry, but I think your idea of cycling 350 miles in 3-4 days then ride back with little experience of cycle touring or any cycling, hoping that you'll get fit in time before now and then, given we are starting winter is totally unrealistic and unachievable for you. But I might be wrong, but I don't think so. I suggest selecting a far less demanding route and give yourself much more time and less pressure. You seem to be concentrating on yourself. How often does your wife ride and typically what sort of distances? You don't want your trip to end in divorce!

[chrismisterx]

Took the advice given above and went to a local bike shop with good reviews about 16 miles from me today and had a chat about my needs and basically told me something different to what I was planning lol.

He thinks a Touring bike isnt the way forward and after looking at my bike said its time to move on from it, he said modern bikes are such better rides.

So he recommended that since I am new to cycling to choose a bike between £500 - £700 max, he said thats a good entry level bike price point that will last years.
He told me to stay away from mountain bikes and Touring bikes, he said I needed something thats good on the road but also can handle the crappy states of cycle paths and bridleways.

The guy really seemed to know his stuff, very friendly and helpful.

So to cut to the chase the bike he recommended was the Cube Natural Pro 2019 either the 27 speed or 30 speed ( 30 speed is £60 more but he said the gears are better quality but that I most likely wouldn't tell the difference between the two at my skill level lol )

this is his website and the bike :-

https://www.cjperformancecycles.com/386 ... black.aspx

I have no idea if thats value for money or not, or if thats good advice that he give, the bike isnt in stock and the one on the shop floor doesn't fit me, so he would have order in and its quite the wait he said atm. He didnt come across like a salesman and I didnt feel he was trying to sell me anything, was trying to help.

what do you all think, could use some honest advice.

On another not after my wife read the replies on the forum posts and she booked up B&B's and is planning to ride the whole way, no trains. Also means the camping isnt going to happen now so much less luggage needed, So we can work on the cycling this trip and next time maybe do the camping.
she has that going to prove everyone wrong look in her eye, she is bloody stubborn at times lol

I cant thank you all so much for the friendly and helpful advice, its been very helpful and has really opened my eyes to quite a bit, given me tons to think about.
Also just watched a video of some guy that did 500km in 24 hours, wow thats insane and just cant even begin to think how hard that must be and how sore his bum ended up lol.

[roubaixtuesday]

Personally i think the bike shop is more important than the bike.

That looks like a reasonable machine for the job but...

For a tour with the mega long daily distances you're contemplating (respect!) (Are you really sure that's a good idea?) I'd definitely want slick tyres - they look pretty knobbly to me and could be hard work, despite the claims otherwise.

Suspension forks will add weight and reduce efficiency for little or no benefit.

TBH it's probably no better overall than your current machine, wear and tear excepted. But it is nice and shiny and that adds a couple of mph average