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Re: Tour bike setup and Equipment

Posted: 22 Jan 2019, 5:58pm
by foxyrider
m-gineering wrote:
drossall wrote:Traditionally, luggage is carried on the bike. It's lower to the ground, giving better centre of gravity and balance, and it doesn't tire you carrying it (though you still have to pedal it up hills, except in the NL!).


Aiming for a 'low centre of gravity' on a bicycle? That doesn't help any, it just makes the bike more nervous and with the largest weight 4 feet of the ground you have to carry way to much luggage to make a meaningfull difference.
Hills in the NL (we've got them, just not in Amsterdam) work the same as everywhere, but G is expressed in m/s2 (all 9.81 of it) so maybe that 's confusing.

The gravitational constant is also the reason you don't want a heavy rucksack, your posterior will take a beating for it. Nowt wrong with 9sp XTR if in decent shape, it is probably the last of the MTB groupsets built to last, current stuff is more aimed at the ' it's at most an hours walk back to the car when it fails' customer


A low c of g does make a difference. Yes the rider is the biggest lump of weight on the machine but mounting the luggage lower on the machine, if done sensibly, will improve the loaded handling, it doesn't have to be a huge weight either. Even the couple of inches drop onto the low bar on racks like the Tortec Expedition will make a difference.

A high load will affect balance and cornering adversly, you might get away with it if it's within the frame width (or indeed within the frame) but as soon as you have weight beyond axle width it will affect things. Lowering the c of g will help reduce the effects.

Re: Tour bike setup and Equipment

Posted: 22 Jan 2019, 8:14pm
by ossie
A hardtail MTB is ideal for touring.

I built up an old Raleigh MTB for £200 (inc wheelset / new crank etc/ tyres / gearing ) and did 1500 miles down to Switzerand and back . I changed the bars for butterfly bars - really comfortable after weeks in the saddle

I'm still using my original cheap Altura panniers but simply use new rubble sacks for each tour inside to keep everything dry. The racks were from ebay (blackburn on the rear)

Here it is fully loaded at Koln on the Rhine. I hope that this gives you inspiration. My most expensive item from this set up is my tent (Vaude Taurus UL). Have fun planning and buying your kit - its addictive but doesn't have to be super expensive or over complicated.

Image

Re: Tour bike setup and Equipment

Posted: 22 Jan 2019, 8:47pm
by st599_uk
Oldjohnw wrote:Note to self: find some Geman friends, go cycling with them carrying a rucksack :)


Definitely, just remember not to mistakenly praise the wrong local bier or get in to the whole "ossie" vs "wessie" thing.

Seriously though - for the price, they're really good. Manufacturer is "Red Cycling Products". Bikester seem to be cheapest to sell to the UK - but sell pannier and rain cover seperately.

ossie wrote:I built up an old Raleigh MTB for £200 (inc wheelset / new crank etc/ tyres / gearing ) and did 1500 miles down to Switzerand and back . I changed the bars for butterfly bars - really comfortable after weeks in the saddle

Here it is fully loaded at Koln on the Rhine. I hope that this gives you inspiration.


Love Köln during Karneval. i'm working up to doing the Rhein Radweg next summer. What make butterfly bars are you using, I'm contemplating upgrading to them.

Re: Tour bike setup and Equipment

Posted: 22 Jan 2019, 11:15pm
by Aquila
ossie wrote:Here it is fully loaded at Koln on the Rhine. I hope that this gives you inspiration. My most expensive item from this set up is my tent (Vaude Taurus UL). Have fun planning and buying your kit - its addictive but doesn't have to be super expensive or over complicated.

Image


It certainly does give me inspiration Ossie, along with reading the many tails and tips this forum has to offer.

I've always loved cycling i have done a few trips via bicycle. A 4 day tour of Vietnam...a 3 day tour of Vietnam ..a couple of single days out and about in other south East Asian countries and few booze and peddle tours of the Netherlands. Nearly every holiday I've been on I've rented a bike and took myself off for the day and not forgetting a few trips away in the UK . but I've never had the chance to plan and take off on my own, with no support van or guide and have always been a bit envious of the lone guy peddling along on a heavily laden panniers bursting touring bike. I did manage to persuade the other half to do the Vietnam tour's but she spent just as much time in the support van as she did on the bike, and knew it was selfish of me to try again with cycling holidays. However this year she wants to stay home with our first grandchild and i have the go-ahead to take off on my bike...
PS i love Koln but love the Kolsh more :D

Re: Tour bike setup and Equipment

Posted: 23 Jan 2019, 8:18am
by m-gineering
foxyrider wrote:
A high load will affect balance and cornering adversly, you might get away with it if it's within the frame width (or indeed within the frame) but as soon as you have weight beyond axle width it will affect things. Lowering the c of g will help reduce the effects.


I'm not saying weight, weigh distribution, polar moment of inertia, stiffness of mounting and all that good stuff isn't important, but my definition of center of gravity certainly differs from yours. Can't see how the width of the axles comes into it.

Re: Tour bike setup and Equipment

Posted: 23 Jan 2019, 8:34am
by foxyrider
m-gineering wrote:
foxyrider wrote:
A high load will affect balance and cornering adversly, you might get away with it if it's within the frame width (or indeed within the frame) but as soon as you have weight beyond axle width it will affect things. Lowering the c of g will help reduce the effects.


I'm not saying weight, weigh distribution, polar moment of inertia, stiffness of mounting and all that good stuff isn't important, but my definition of center of gravity certainly differs from yours. Can't see how the width of the axles comes into it.


Read what I said again. Didn't mention axle length.

Re: Tour bike setup and Equipment

Posted: 23 Jan 2019, 9:05am
by Vorpal
Welcome.

Don't worry about all of the stuff about the bike & frame :) The main thing is that on a mountain bike with panniers, you have to be a bit careful not to get the weight too far back. If you have too much behind the rear axle, it can affect steering. The space for mounting panniers is a bit smaller than on a touring bike, so you may need to mount panniers back further than you might like just to avoid kicking them.

My solution on my hybrid is put them as far back as I need to for my feet, then put the heaviest stuff in the front of the panniers.

Also, most cheap panniers are okay, but not very waterproof, so if you don't have much money, or aren't sure about the investment, you can just get some cheap ones and use liners, or pack everything in plastic bags. That's what I did when I was a student. It works okay. It's just kind of a hassle to have everything double or triple packed.

See what works for you, and spend time changing load arrangements, or whatever you need to do to get it to work for you.

It might be worth a weekend trip on familiar ground, and not too far from home to help work out the bugs.

Re: Tour bike setup and Equipment

Posted: 23 Jan 2019, 11:41am
by Oldjohnw
I've got by well enough with cheap bags from Halfords. This year I got some waterproof bags but I will still use smaller dry bags inside as I like to keep things orderly and different things easily identified.

Re: Tour bike setup and Equipment

Posted: 23 Jan 2019, 11:44am
by m-gineering
foxyrider wrote:
m-gineering wrote:
foxyrider wrote:
A high load will affect balance and cornering adversly, you might get away with it if it's within the frame width (or indeed within the frame) but as soon as you have weight beyond axle width it will affect things. Lowering the c of g will help reduce the effects.


I'm not saying weight, weigh distribution, polar moment of inertia, stiffness of mounting and all that good stuff isn't important, but my definition of center of gravity certainly differs from yours. Can't see how the width of the axles comes into it.


Read what I said again. Didn't mention axle length.

Nor did I, but how about your' weight beyond axle width' ????

Is this perhaps a novel way of describing wheelbase?

Re: Tour bike setup and Equipment

Posted: 23 Jan 2019, 12:16pm
by Oldjohnw
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Ready for a full week of camping, 16 year old Raleigh hybrid. Plus electric motor.