Cycle Travel Question

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 20 Jan 2020, 12:45pm

Yes, definitely on the radar!

I've done a bunch of work that will take a signposted cycle route (as mapped in OSM) and make a cycle.travel route out of it, with via points in all the right places. This will probably make its way onto the site as a "route library" of some sort, where you can see a list/map of nearby routes, and then choose one to open it in the route-planner.

I have sometimes wondered about offering a "follow signposted routes" mode, but it's technically challenging. The challenge there is that if there's a break in the route as mapped in OSM, even if only of a few yards, then the route-planner would throw its hands up and say "sorry, can't find a route". (Here's an example: https://cycle.travel/map?from=52.9253,- ... 78,-4.1294 . NCN 8 is only mapped in one direction here, so if you're heading northbound then c.t will by necessity take you 'off-route'.) The way round that would be to have a mode that really strongly preferred signposted routes but would go onto non-signposted routes as a last resort, but as usual, that means doubling the server memory requirement and so (in effect) renting a whole new expensive server.

Which is why I'm probably going to do the "route library" thing. Watch this space. :D
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mjr
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby mjr » 20 Jan 2020, 12:51pm

LittleGreyCat wrote:(2) There are certain UK cycle routes (such as National Route 1) which have possibly illogical detours (such as down into the centre of Woodbridge) which may be due to the local Councils applying subtle pressure to direct cyclists past the points where they can offer local services, or past local Tourist Attractions.

I'm fairly sure (maybe 75%) that this was one of the negative effects of a combination of the Millennium Lottery bid for the network to pass within x miles of y% of the population and to have M miles of routes. Certainly, anyone wanting to travel from Norwich to King's Lynn can almost halve the distance by following Norwich's Blue route, a proposed (dashed line on OSM cycle views) extension to Swaffham and then waymarked local route 5 and avoiding the beautiful but indirect part-sand route through Fakenham, Wells and Hunstanton, and anyone wanting to travel from King's Lynn to Boston can also cut a third off by following local route 9 (mostly signposted West Lynn then Sutton Bridge at the moment rather than 9 :( ) and the B1359 between Lynn and Gedney to rejoin route 1, rather than the long kink on national route 1 inland to Wisbech. Sustrans seem to lose the plot for a few years about the trans(port) bit of their name and started trying to compete with the meandering National Byway touring route.

As you say, there are tourists who enjoy following the entire route. I meet them sometimes looking confused by the Great Ouse as the "North Sea Coast Cycleway" bizarrely heads 15 miles inland... Personally, for travel, I think cycle.travel's balance is almost right. Maybe someone will want to sponsor a server for Richard and a cycle.touring site? ;)
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Vorpal
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby Vorpal » 20 Jan 2020, 2:55pm

Woodbridge is lovely, and the detour can easily be left out, if someone following NCR1 doesn't want to stop at one of their nice tearooms. :mrgreen:
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pwa
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby pwa » 20 Jan 2020, 3:09pm

One very nice thing about cycle.travel is just how easy it is to cobble together a route from A to B, dragging it to refine it, and seeing how possible amendments alter the profile. Is that severe looking hill necessary? Let's try dragging the route onto this alternative lane to see how it affects the profile. It makes it simple to avoid gratuitous climbing.

geocycle
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby geocycle » 20 Jan 2020, 4:20pm

pwa wrote:One very nice thing about cycle.travel is just how easy it is to cobble together a route from A to B, dragging it to refine it, and seeing how possible amendments alter the profile. Is that severe looking hill necessary? Let's try dragging the route onto this alternative lane to see how it affects the profile. It makes it simple to avoid gratuitous climbing.


Yes I do that a lot. It is definitely my favourite route planner, thanks Richard. It works ok on my phone as well so I can plan on the hoof and it is easy to interface with my wahoo. Having done a lot of routes I often pick ones from a couple of years ago as inspiration and either do them again or modify them.

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RickH
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby RickH » 31 Jan 2020, 8:02pm

I'm having trouble logging in tonight (at least on my Firefox running on Android - I've not yet fired up the PC to see if it is any different there). I usually stay logged in but got a log in screen which didn't like what I thought was my password. I tried the "forgotten password" route which let me set a new one but that isn't letting me log in either. Is it just me?

Edited to add (at 10:20pm): PC seems to be working fine (but I haven't tried logging out & back in again), and can see all my saved route, but on phone it still won't let me log in.

I was going to post to say I'm getting embedded turn-by-turn instructions even though I don't have the box ticked. GPS file saved as a TCX course & would prefer not to have to strip them out manually, although I can live with them on a short route. At least they are all grouped together at the end of the TCX so it is easy to find & delete them if I want to.

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 31 Jan 2020, 11:21pm

Hm - haven't had any other reports and it's working fine for me. Can you give me a step-by-step for exactly what page you're going to, what you're typing in, and what you're doing vs what you'd expect it to do? By email is fine if you don't want to post things here (richard@systemed.net is my main email).
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RickH
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby RickH » 31 Jan 2020, 11:40pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:Hm - haven't had any other reports and it's working fine for me. Can you give me a step-by-step for exactly what page you're going to, what you're typing in, and what you're doing vs what you'd expect it to do? By email is fine if you don't want to post things here (richard@systemed.net is my main email).

OK, panic over.

I think Firefox had got its digital knickers in a twist. :? A "force stop" & relaunch seems to have got my login back. :D (turn it off & back on again - tech support 101 :wink:)

MartinFox
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby MartinFox » 10 Feb 2020, 10:37am

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. I usually use Strava, but having seen the recommendations I thought I would give Cycle Travel a go and I am very impressed. Clear, easy to use and it seems to come up with quieter routes than Strava. Just one problem though. If I put a route on to my Garmin 530 as a tcx course some information seems to be missing when I look at the route on the Garmin. For example the route distance is given as 0 ft whereas on the website it is 30 miles. Also the elevation information seems to be missing, but only on the Garmin. However, once I start the ride it gives the distance to destination correctly. It is in the route summary that things seem to be missing or incorrect. This is not a problem that I've experienced with Strava. Not a major problem, but if there is an easy solution I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me.

LittleGreyCat
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby LittleGreyCat » 16 Feb 2020, 9:28pm

Another one for Richard.

Using the flatter Eastern route for LEJOG reversed for a JOGLE takes me over the ferry at Cromarty.
It was pointed out that this is a seasonal ferry and only runs May to mid September.

I have a nagging feeling that I have raised this before because 3 of the 4 ferries up the Suffolk coast are seasonal as well, but my searching back is poor.

Anyway, is there a way to warn of seasonal ferries?
Assuming of course that there is accurate mapping information.
Another Mea Culpa because I have yet to contribute my first edit to OSM.

Edit: why has the title of this thread changed from Cycle Travel Question to New Route Planner?
I am easily confused at the best of times.

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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Postby Vorpal » 17 Feb 2020, 8:36am

LittleGreyCat wrote:
Edit: why has the title of this thread changed from Cycle Travel Question to New Route Planner?
I am easily confused at the best of times.

There were two or three separate threads that were merged. I'm not sure about why the title changed. It's been a long while since the last merger.

Anyway, I changed it back :)
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Psamathe
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby Psamathe » 17 Feb 2020, 10:31am

LittleGreyCat wrote:I've just searched back through the topic to try and confirm that I haven't asked this before.
I have a strong track record of not noticing features unless they are pointed out to me, but here goes anyway:

At the moment the planner seems to, quite sensibly, optimise the route so that if there is a Cycle Route going in the right direction it is used, but if there is a short cut (especially between two Cycle Routes) the short cut is selected.

If I want to follow a Cycle Route, and for longer rides (especially in the Netherlands) stick to formal Cycle Routes even if this makes the trip longer, is there any way to do this?
.....

I think this would be an excellent feature. Last summer I was riding EV6, then EV15 (once I'd Caen to Langeais) using cycle.travel. Each day I'd decide on a destination for next day (distance, campsite availability, supermarkets availability (in needed), etc.) and create route on cycle.travel. But quite sensibly cycle.travel created the best route which invariably was part on Evrovelo, part not on Eurovelo (sometimes of alternative cycle paths, sometimes on quiet roads).

It was not a massive issue to create via points and adjust the route to follow the EV path and I was not being a complete perfectionist so not requiring every ft cycled on EV and it worked without problems.

But it would be a nice feature BUT I can appreciate the major challenges implementing such functionality. gpx's for Eurovelo routes are available (but maybe subject to copyright?) but also, I found on e.g. EV6 the path on maps branches and in places you can get from A to B on EV6 via many different routes (on maps, signposts do not present similar choices) You'd need some sort of "importance/significance rank" on every cycle path (which I doubt is provided by OSM data).

Ian

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mjr
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby mjr » 17 Feb 2020, 10:58am

Psamathe wrote:gpx's for Eurovelo routes are available (but maybe subject to copyright?)

Liberally-licensed gpxs for routes can be downloaded from https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org but the branching/alternate routes is often a problem. It's fixable technically but I think some bits would cause disputes over which branch is main and which is alternate.

I don't see a big attraction in having a lot of routes in c.t that duplicate routes which are offered elsewhere. Why do others want this?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Psamathe
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Re: Cycle Travel question!

Postby Psamathe » 17 Feb 2020, 11:29am

mjr wrote:
Psamathe wrote:gpx's for Eurovelo routes are available (but maybe subject to copyright?)

Liberally-licensed gpxs for routes can be downloaded from https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org but the branching/alternate routes is often a problem. It's fixable technically but I think some bits would cause disputes over which branch is main and which is alternate.

I don't see a big attraction in having a lot of routes in c.t that duplicate routes which are offered elsewhere. Why do others want this?

For my use it's not so much having the gpx route for the EV available for download (I had that downloaded from elsewhere). It's more the turn by turn routing from today's campsite (in a town a few miles off the EV) to tomorrow's campsite (again, several (or more) miles off the EV).

e.g. Put in "From" and "To" and select a preference for "Major Cycle Routes" and the created route would as far a "reasonable" route you on the major cycle route. The challenge comes in "reasonable" e.g. last year on EV6 there was a section where EV6 departs from the river (Doubs) to go through Étouvans which is further and adds a lot of ascent/descent. I stayed on the river for shorter and flatter but a real "follow EV6" perfectionist would have done the extra distance and hills. What is "reasonable".

But main thing is to get cycle.travel to create a turn by turn route from departure to arrival for the day downloadable to navigation device.

Ian

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mjr
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Re: Cycle Travel Question

Postby mjr » 17 Feb 2020, 12:47pm

Can't one simply use c.t to route between EV6 and the campsites, loading three routes into the device at once? Even my current lightweight map app will show up to four routes at a time.

I think having another routing option like that will mean someone buying c.t another server.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.