GPS Navigation

[JonCS]

I use bikehike for planning routes, but would really like audio turn by turn instructions with the screen off.
I've tried OSMand but have struggled in the past with it wanting you to pass over every point in the route and being very fussy if the waymark was not exactly in the path - a few meters off.
What do other people use?

This will be a mix of road and off road, so I don't want to use something that tells me the best route to my destination.

Thanks
Jon

[yutkoxpo]

Hi Jon,
I get your frustrations with osmand.
Perhaps the solution lies in osmand itself? There is a googlegroup for Osmand users https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/osmand

I'm working off the assumption that at least some of your routes may not be labelled for "bike". (If not then there is no reason that something like Komoot or Strava or Ride with GPS would not work, although these all require subscriptions or payments to use.)

As far as I know the only guaranteed way to get an app to follow a route 100% you have designed yourself is to plan the route in that app (or website version). Simply, if the planning app shows a track that the navigating app does not have then you have a problem.
I know Komoot has an option in the planning to link up 2 places that are not connected on their map. But how the app deals with the reality (navigation) I have no idea. Just thinking, it also has a hiking option that might be more off-road friendly. You can test it out locally for free.

[simonwoodward66]

I use Osmand constantly for both Audaxing and Touring around the country. I haven't had any issues with it being fussy about me being a few metres off the track.
What happens when you're slightly off track?

[JonCS]

Thanks for the replies.
I last used it in anger a couple of years ago.
What happened was stopping for a break off the route could bypass a waypoint and it would insist we doubled back over the way point before navigating us forwards.
Also off road tracks aren't always brilliant and someone may have either taken a short cut or got lost when recording the route, or have the time between marks set quite large so a very coarse route results and I don't want to have to follow every detail, or take straight lines between distant waypoints.

I see from the web that it has been updated with options to not insist on passing through every way point - which sounds good.

Are Garmin's any better or is there better software?

Thanks
J

[LinusR]

.
What do other people use?

I use the free version of https://ridewithgps.com to plan and create the routes using Open Cycle Map. I load the .tcx file onto a Garmin Edge Touring GPS device (2013). I use the Garmin with the sound turned off and the backlight turned off to save the battery (it's old). I use it for both on and off-road navigation. If I deviate from the route it will usually direct me back on course. If I'm following a circular route with a planned stop en route I find it better create two separate routes as it seems to work better. ie for a day ride: a morning route and an afternoon route. I use my phone with OS Maps and a paper OS map as a back up.

[yutkoxpo]

Thanks for the replies.
I last used it in anger a couple of years ago.
What happened was stopping for a break off the route could bypass a waypoint and it would insist we doubled back over the way point before navigating us forwards.

There's a discussion on that very topic in the osmand group highlighted above.

Also off road tracks aren't always brilliant and someone may have either taken a short cut or got lost when recording the route, or have the time between marks set quite large so a very coarse route results and I don't want to have to follow every detail, or take straight lines between distant waypoints.
I see from the web that it has been updated with options to not insist on passing through every way point - which sounds good.

I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect to be able to deviate from a planned route and not have voice instructions telling you to change back to the route. At least until it recalculates the route. It seems to me you're expecting a level of intelligence from your device that it doesn't have.
Perhaps a breadcrumb trail type navigation would better suit your style of riding? But that means looking at the screen as opposed to listening to instructions.
In any case, if the original planned route is poor, no gps device or app will improve it.

Are Garmin's any better or is there better software?

Thanks
J

I can only speak for a Touring model I tried about 3 years ago for touring purposes. It went back after 3 weeks. I found it to be totally unreliable.
Others love them.
I think a lot of it comes down to having a good understanding of what the devices can do and marrying that with your own needs.
I don't think Garmins do voice navigation?
I use a Wahoo Elemnt, mainly in breadcrumb mode and never have a problem with it. It's maps are low detail, but I don't want it for a map. I want it to follow a route.

[charliepolecat]

I think this problem will continue for many of us until, when ...?

All I want from a GPS reading device is the same information I get from an excel cue sheet. In other words, I want a note telling me at mile 5.6 to turn left into X road, then at mile 14.7 turn right onto Y street, and so on.

All of the Garmins and other devices on the market want to read your heart rate, tell you how many watts you are expending, telling you to turn - often at the wrong place, let you know what's north and that your bum hurts and basically to remind you to call home. I don't want any of that, but there seems to be no alternative.

Can anyone tell me what really basic and simple device is out there that I can download a RWGPS route and ride on?

[yutkoxpo]

I think this problem will continue for many of us until, when ...?

All I want from a GPS reading device is the same information I get from an excel cue sheet. In other words, I want a note telling me at mile 5.6 to turn left into X road, then at mile 14.7 turn right onto Y street, and so on.

All of the Garmins and other devices on the market want to read your heart rate, tell you how many watts you are expending, telling you to turn - often at the wrong place, let you know what's north and that your bum hurts and basically to remind you to call home. I don't want any of that, but there seems to be no alternative.

Can anyone tell me what really basic and simple device is out there that I can download a RWGPS route and ride on?

You want turn by turn directions? RideWith GPS app on your phone. Also Komoot or Osmand.

If you want a dedicated gps device (as opposed to your phone) then you will have to buy a Wahoo or Garmin or Lezyne that will do more than you want it to do.

The simplest gps device that will follow a breadcrumb trail (ie no turn by turn) is the yellow Garmin E-trex.

[charliepolecat]

All my rides - or the ones on new routes I have not ridden before - are Audaxes and therefore long distances. If I am riding for - say 12 - 24 hours at a stretch then using my android phone will not be practical - but I do have RWGPS on it.

I am leaning towards the Etrex but I have been told the screen is too small to read on the fly. Anyway, if I design a route using RWGPS then I simply download the cue sheet after I have designed it and then convert it to excel, job done. It's when I am given GPS routes by others - such as the lovely Mike - and find I have to convert it to FIT files then find I am up the creek because I can't go any further - that I come unstuck.

To solve that problem I could go RWGPS premium - and probably will have to - then I can convert any other GPS codes to RWGPS and then I can download the cue sheet and be off to the races with Excel.

It's not that I am more of a Luddite than anyone else - but just might be in this tangled technological web of a world we now find ourselves, but GPS devices fail whereas the printed word never will.

[yutkoxpo]

All my rides - or the ones on new routes I have not ridden before - are Audaxes and therefore long distances. If I am riding for - say 12 - 24 hours at a stretch then using my android phone will not be practical - but I do have RWGPS on it.

Powerbank or dynamohub.

I am leaning towards the Etrex but I have been told the screen is too small to read on the fly. Anyway, if I design a route using RWGPS then I simply download the cue sheet after I have designed it and then convert it to excel, job done. It's when I am given GPS routes by others - such as the lovely Mike - and find I have to convert it to FIT files then find I am up the creek because I can't go any further - that I come unstuck.

To solve that problem I could go RWGPS premium - and probably will have to - then I can convert any other GPS codes to RWGPS and then I can download the cue sheet and be off to the races with Excel.

I'm confused now. Is it the cue sheet you want? ie a printed list of directions even for routes given to you by someone else. Or are you looking for the cue sheet detail in turn by turn navigation - an electronic cue sheet?

It's not that I am more of a Luddite than anyone else - but just might be in this tangled technological web of a world we now find ourselves, but GPS devices fail whereas the printed word never will.

The printed word is only as good as the route it is based on. Using an app like RWGPS to either create or import third party routes is no guarantee for an error free cuesheet. And paper can blow away!

You might get better info in the Audax forum.

[charliepolecat]

I'm confused now. Is it the cue sheet you want? ie a printed list of directions even for routes given to you by someone else

Confusion over, that is precisely what I want.

[honesty]

For route planning I use the Garmin connect website. If I’m touring I’ll probably check against the Sustrans map as well if I’m following one of their routes and check against street view and satellite pictures on google maps. Using the connect website means I can upload directly to my Garmin as well. I’ve found it works well as long as you’re checking the route. As the google database is publicly maintained you can get paths marked as cycle routes that are not. You can also get some odd routing artefacts when roads and paths don’t quite meet up on the map but do I real life, caused the computer route to go out of its way. Generally though it’s worked for me.

[Psamathe]

For route planning I use the Garmin connect website.....

I've been using Garmin Connect website sending up the rides I've recorded and exploring it and in my opinion it's complete rubbish. I can't see anywhere to create routes (I'm sure it's there but certainly well hidden) - but it's not a massive issue for me as I find cycle.travel routes better than those created on the Garmin GPS device (and I assume wherever it is on their web site will be doing the same). I think the issue with their web site is that it is trying to be all things to all people and most of the links seem to be directed at non-cycling training.

Ian

[honesty]

For route planning I use the Garmin connect website.....

I've been using Garmin Connect website sending up the rides I've recorded and exploring it and in my opinion it's complete rubbish. I can't see anywhere to create routes (I'm sure it's there but certainly well hidden) - but it's not a massive issue for me as I find cycle.travel routes better than those created on the Garmin GPS device (and I assume wherever it is on their web site will be doing the same). I think the issue with their web site is that it is trying to be all things to all people and most of the links seem to be directed at non-cycling training.

Ian

Click on training on the left hand menu, then courses. The website routes using Google maps by default (though you can use HERE maps, or OSM as well if you want) and a custom routing option based on a few options. I always change this to follow roads from popularity routing, as this can cause some interesting options. I believe this routes differently than the head units, but I've never set up a route on the unit itself.

I like it as, on a proper computer at least, its easier to click and drag around intermediary points compared to other sites I've tried.

[andrew_s]

I would really like audio turn by turn instructions with the screen off
...
I don't want to use something that tells me the best route to my destination.

It may not be possible to match these requirements, as mostly a route is either following a map, or it's not, and can't be switched between following and not following without manual intervention.

If you put in a load of points, and ignore the map data, all you are doing is point-to-point, and since the map is being ignored, you won't get any automatic turn indications. How would it know whether that 45° change of direction is a turn, or just a bend in the road?
You go exactly were you intended, but have to watch the screen.

As soon as you start following the map between points on your route, automatic turn indications become possible, but you also get the chance that your app/device will go to the next point by some route other than the one you intended. This is especially likely for off-road sections were the map may not have any road, path or track in it.

In the above "map" is the OSM or other vector map that your app/device is using. Raster maps like the OS 1:50,000 or 1:25,000 (or aerial photos) don't allow any sort of routing at all. Where it appears that they do, it's because there's a second vector map that you can't see).