Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

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LeBrignall
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby LeBrignall » 8 May 2019, 8:10pm

I have taken several flights on Ra and always used the same plastic bag as you - to and from morocco and portugal, and never had a problem. I also flew to India with my bike in a bag on air india.

I think you have been very unlucky, and would pursue them for compensation. Sounds like some jobsworth ground crew to me. Have you rung up Ryanair and asked what the policy is? I certainly shall.
L

Lottie
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Lottie » 8 May 2019, 10:47pm

Am very sorry to hear your story. We flew from Newcastle to Madrid in September 2017 with our bikes in CTC plastic bags with RyanAir-no concerns expressed by staff at check in or at oversize luggage x-ray. I’ve probably still got the photos of them.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Bonefishblues » 8 May 2019, 11:22pm

As was said earlier thread, it's likely that the refusors were not Ryanair staff. It is also the case that, as illustrated earlier, the decision is based on the opinion of the staff at the time. Bringing forward examples of their acceptance may therefore be of limited utility unless it can be shown that this is a truly exceptional, once in a blue moon occurrence.

It may also be the case that the action might be deflected by RA to their Ground Handling Agent.

Be aware that the County Court proceedings are deliberately informal and tend to take an 'everyman' approach to legal interpretation. This may play against the OP, in that plastic bags don't really stack up in most people's minds as 'protective' items when it comes to a large item like a bike.

Be interesting to find out, though.

ubert767
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby ubert767 » 8 May 2019, 11:25pm

We flew Ryan Air from Bournemouth to Pisa in 2014 with our bikes packed in CTC type bags. At check-in we were initially refused because the ground staff deemed the bikes to be insufficiently protected but then we produced the trump card, a previously obtained email from RA's customer department which stated that that form of packaging would be accepted. The ground staff reluctantly allowed us and the bikes to board.......not a good start to the holiday.
This was a while ago, things may have been further tightened since then. To be fair, this was an issue with the Bournemouth Airport ground staff and not Ryan Air itself.

caribike
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Joined: 7 May 2019, 11:02pm

Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby caribike » 9 May 2019, 12:20am

Thank you for all the information and experiences given in your replies.

The strange thing is that we did exactly the same thing on the same return route in 2016 and 2017 with the same ctc bags.
In this case the check-in girl called over a supervisor who in turn phoned someone (who?) at RyanAir and thus the rejection of the bikes.

I had it in mind that the protective bag was to prevent grease and dirt getting on other hold luggage. About 20 years ago, twice I took my bicycle from Gatwick to Toulouse and return. Later, I took a tandem on the same route. No protection, no hastle - although the tandem did pick up a few flecks of yellow paint from somewhere.

Overnight, I didn't sleep well and then I thought we should be able to recover some of this holiday. I phoned my friend was not very keen at first but he did come round. We are now booked on a FlyBe flight to Palma tomorrow (Thursday) from Southampton which we can get to easily from Cowes. We can get to Sineu by airport bus then train. On Friday, we are going to take the train to Inca and bus to Puerto de Pollensa to pick up our bikes that I booked and then cycle the 22 miles back to Sineu.
Our holiday is reduced from 14 to 9 days because FlyBe only have a few flight so we have to return home on a Sunday rather than the following Tuesday.

MrsHJ
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby MrsHJ » 9 May 2019, 4:56am

Very sorry to hear of this. I flew Ryanair in September fromBeziers to Bristol (only airline that does that route) and they were fine with that bag. I hope you manage to get some récompense for the loss of your holiday. Re the bag if you’ve covered your bike in 10m of bubble wrap inside the bag as I did when flying to the USA where I now am i would have thought it’s protected but as others have said it doesn’t help with jobs worths or if Ryanair have issued a no plastic bag edict to staff. They absolutely need to clarify this on their website and they are horrible in customer service , change their minds frequently so no doubt they’ll do nothing.

Navrig
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Joined: 9 Apr 2018, 12:46pm

Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Navrig » 9 May 2019, 12:21pm

I susoect the OP's best option would be to gather sufficient information to demonstrate that:

1. RA are, at least, inconsistent but have been the habit of accepting bikes in CTC bags
2. His, the OP's, interpretation of the RA T&Cs is reasonable on the basis that if RA wished a greater degree of protection modifying the T&Cs would be a very simple exercise and would be a practicable and reasonable exercise to undertake to avoid such situations.

Number one could be achieved by quoting the sort of information on this website albeit it is anecdotal and historical. Better still would be an email to head office asking them to confirm that a CTC bag is acceptable for RA flights.

Number two is just a case of structuring your argument logically, using their words as much as you possibly can.

The downside to taking small claims court action is that RA (and others) will tighten their T&Cs and CTC bags will never be accepted again.

nirakaro
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby nirakaro » 9 May 2019, 12:39pm

Navrig wrote:The downside to taking small claims court action is that RA (and others) will tighten their T&Cs and CTC bags will never be accepted again.

... which is really no worse than the present situation - at least people would know where they stand.
The other downside, of course, is that RA are unlikely to be a pushover, and the OP may have a fight on his hands - depends how determined he is. It might be wise to pay for some legal advice before going any further.

Navrig
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Navrig » 9 May 2019, 12:46pm

nirakaro wrote:
Navrig wrote:The downside to taking small claims court action is that RA (and others) will tighten their T&Cs and CTC bags will never be accepted again.

... which is really no worse than the present situation - at least people would know where they stand.
The other downside, of course, is that RA are unlikely to be a pushover, and the OP may have a fight on his hands - depends how determined he is. It might be wise to pay for some legal advice before going any further.


Agreed on the clarity.

No so much agreement on RA making it a fight. The small claims court process is geared towards giving the small man a chance and big corporations will often settle before it gets to court or they may not show, in which they default. To actually engage legal representation will cost more than the compensation they would have to pay the OP. I regularly see legal charge rates in the £350-700 per hour.

A case such as this is not likely to set a precedent of costs due to others. It may however result in the clarity you mention.

Psamathe
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Psamathe » 9 May 2019, 12:51pm

mjr wrote:
simonhill wrote:This, from their Terms and Conditions seems to cover it:
8.7.2 We may refuse to accept Baggage for carriage unless it is in our reasonable opinion properly and securely packed in suitable containers.

That's pretty subjective and I think that the check in staff could reasonably argue that in their reasonable opinion it wasn't securely packed.

They could argue that, but arguing that they have the power to decide that in an unintuitive way at check in with no time to repack it suitably in time would make it pretty surely an unfair term IMO.

caribike wrote:...
Their Ts and Cs on their website states: "Bicycles - MUST be contained in a protective box or protective bike bag in order to be accepted for travel. Electric bicycles cannot be transported by plane."....

I think the 2nd requirement (from OP) clarifies what the more general 8.7.2 in the context of bikes.

mjr wrote:
irc wrote:My immediate impression of "protective" is a bag that would provide protection for the bike. Who knows what a small claims court would find.

Protection from what, though? The poly bag protects from liquids and light scrapes, as well as protects others from chain oil. But, as you say, who knows how a court would rule?

I would agree (personal opinion) that if they require a padded bag their T&Cs should say padded bag. Their "protective bike bag" is probably general enough to include your Wiggle CTC bike bag (which would protect the bike from a whole loads of possible problems).

If it were me (and I have no legal expertise) I'd be pursuing it, though check with people who know how far you should go with Ryanair before going to Small Claims Track because some years ago I took somebody to County Court and County Court does not like it when people don't try hard to resolve out of court and award costs "accordingly" (i.e. if they think you've not tried out of court enough you might win but wont get much in the way of costs awarded - we settled out of court but my solicitor was regularly advising me trying to get the other parts to go through mediation).

Ian

simonhill
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby simonhill » 9 May 2019, 12:52pm

Navrig wrote:
The downside to taking small claims court action is that RA (and others) will tighten their T&Cs and CTC bags will never be accepted again.


I suspect this could be true.

In the meantime, it should be standard policy for everyone flying with a poly bag to get a covering email from their airline.

Nonetheless, I wonder what is the hierarchy at airports. If the airline says xx baggage is OK but the airport staff say it is not, who wins?

When I flew from Southend with a poly bag, I was told by airport security staff as I was packing up that it was not acceptable. I then went to easyjet check in who said it was. The airline won in that case.

Glad the OP thought this through and made the most of a really sh** situation. Happy riding.

Navrig
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Joined: 9 Apr 2018, 12:46pm

Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Navrig » 9 May 2019, 12:55pm

Psamathe wrote:
If it were me (and I have no legal expertise) I'd be pursuing it, though check with people who know how far you should go with Ryanair before going to Small Claims Track because some years ago I took somebody to County Court and County Court does not like it when people don't try hard to resolve out of court and award costs "accordingly" (i.e. if they think you've not tried out of court enough you might win but wont get much in the way of costs awarded - we settled out of court but my solicitor was regularly advising me trying to get the other parts to go through mediation).

Ian


That's easy enough to do and demonstrate.

Simply write to RA at the outset requesting compensation as a result of their breach of contract giving them 14 days to respond.

Then prepare the small claims court documents and when almost at a final draft send them a copy indicating that you will lodge the documents in 7 days failing a satisfactory response from RA.

The arguments in the letter and the small claims documents should be the same although the small claims may be more polished.

I am not legally qualified nor trained but I have been through several dispute resolutions (construction related) and regularly participate in contractual arguments.

PH
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby PH » 9 May 2019, 2:13pm

Psamathe wrote:If it were me (and I have no legal expertise) I'd be pursuing it, though check with people who know how far you should go with Ryanair before going to Small Claims Track because some years ago I took somebody to County Court and County Court does not like it when people don't try hard to resolve out of court and award costs "accordingly" (i.e. if they think you've not tried out of court enough you might win but wont get much in the way of costs awarded - we settled out of court but my solicitor was regularly advising me trying to get the other parts to go through mediation).

Ian

Navrig's proposed course of action is one I'd follow, but just to add that the small claims process has very little discretion in awarding costs, I think they're restricted to the court fees and travelling expenses.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Bonefishblues » 9 May 2019, 2:14pm

To ask again, what do posters think would be the OP's chances of bringing a successful action?

Polisman
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Polisman » 9 May 2019, 2:28pm

Bonefishblues wrote:To ask again, what do posters think would be the OP's chances of bringing a successful action?


I think if you went to Small Claims with it they would probably settle before a court date. It would probably cost them more to hire a solicitor for the day than to settle with you. Just make sure you have receipts and paperwork for EVERYTHING