Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

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Bonefishblues
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Bonefishblues » 23 May 2019, 1:21pm

Navrig wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I think that's a slightly longer version of my post a couple upthread isn't it :lol:

...but yes, I violently agree.


Agreed although his post may carry a little more weight as he claims to be a pilot and sees it all first hand.

A cycling buddy tells the story of his marmotte trip. At Geneva his flight arrived at the same time as a flight from the middle east. He collected his bike from the outsize luggage place at the same time as a guy (from the ME) who had his P&J in a decent brand hard case. He opened the case to find his Cervelo with a snapped chainstay.

I am not sure how it could have happened. Maybe it was a scam to make an insurance claim but the frame was broken.

I just watched this authoritative video:
https://youtu.be/5YGc4zOqozo

Being serious, it's just so obvious - a bike's a vulnerable thing. One may be insured, may be able to get it replaced, but if you're relying on it to do the thing that you went on the trip to do, then not sensible to, effectively, leave it to chance. Similarly, my being able to fish means I need fishing gear - intact, so I take ownership of that!

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kylecycler
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby kylecycler » 23 May 2019, 2:03pm

"Pilot Pete"'s post quoted by Nihonga (and, evidently, others - it's a long thread!) really does open your eyes, particularly with regard to carbon framesets. Even if your frame isn't carbon there's more of a chance that your fork is, and a high-end thin-walled butted steel or aluminium frame is inevitably prone to denting.

Even if none of that ^ applies, you'd have to expect that your rear derailleur is quite likely to go out of alignment - it doesn't take much - and given that a hanger alignment tool is absolutely not the sort of thing you could lug around with you, it's a problem. What you could do, though, is carry a spare mech hanger - or two or even three, they weigh nothing - and just swap them if they get bent. In fact, I guess that would be good policy on any tour.

Makes you realise a bag just doesn't cut it, although without reading this thread and thinking it through that might not have been quite so obvious. And then you read Navrig's post about the guy with the Cervelo in the hard case and you think maybe you shouldn't even bother.

I've never flown with a bike, mind you, just taken them on ferries. Away back in 1977 when I took my (then brand new) Carlton to France, I sorely offended one of the (French) hands on the Newhaven-Dieppe ferry by trying to insist that he lashed up my pride and joy to the rail in the hold before I left it. He clearly thought I was telling him how to do his job (I was, and realised I really didn't need to) and I could see his point of view; he just couldn't see mine.

mattheus
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby mattheus » 23 May 2019, 2:17pm

Bonefishblues wrote:... not sensible to, effectively, leave it to chance.


You will have a dull life (especially your holidays) if you leave nothing to chance my friend!

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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Bonefishblues » 23 May 2019, 2:36pm

mattheus wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:... not sensible to, effectively, leave it to chance.


You will have a dull life (especially your holidays) if you leave nothing to chance my friend!

Indeed I would, but you know what, if I'm going on a cycling holiday (which at least in my version of cycling needs a functioning bike or it becomes something of a single centre holiday) or a fishing holiday (needing tackle that's not in bits, or it's not a fishing holiday, at least where I fish) then I think that it's actually rather sensible not to leave it to chance.

I guess I'm dull like that.

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kylecycler
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby kylecycler » 23 May 2019, 2:37pm

mattheus wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:... not sensible to, effectively, leave it to chance.


You will have a dull life (especially your holidays) if you leave nothing to chance my friend!

Yebbut he might have a longer life than you. :wink:

Navrig
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Navrig » 23 May 2019, 2:39pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
mattheus wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:... not sensible to, effectively, leave it to chance.


You will have a dull life (especially your holidays) if you leave nothing to chance my friend!

Indeed I would, but you know what, if I'm going on a cycling holiday (which at least in my version of cycling needs a functioning bike or it becomes something of a single centre holiday) or a fishing holiday (needing tackle that's not in bits, or it's not a fishing holiday, at least where I fish) then I think that it's actually rather sensible not to leave it to chance.

I guess I'm dull like that.


I agree. If cycling you want the bike there and safe, if skiing you want the skis etc. You might not be so particular about your route, your lunch stops etc.

That's risk management. Sweat the big stuff and deal with the small stuff ad hoc.

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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Bonefishblues » 23 May 2019, 2:42pm

Exactly that philosophy /\

mattheus
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby mattheus » 23 May 2019, 2:42pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
mattheus wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:... not sensible to, effectively, leave it to chance.


You will have a dull life (especially your holidays) if you leave nothing to chance my friend!

Indeed I would, but you know what, if I'm going on a cycling holiday (which at least in my version of cycling needs a functioning bike or it becomes something of a single centre holiday) or a fishing holiday (needing tackle that's not in bits, or it's not a fishing holiday, at least where I fish) then I think that it's actually rather sensible not to leave it to chance.

I guess I'm dull like that.

Hey, you're talking to someone who has only once flown TO a cycling trip, so I appreciate your POV :)

But one can't rule out everything; there is a chance the airline will lose the bike and/or luggage. Or not even get the plane off the ground (this is my usual experience).
Or you'll get SMIDSYed on the 1st morning. Or mugged for your bike. etc etc ...

We all take chances. (and in this case, taking a chance with a featherweight bag has a lot of advantages, in ways that can improve the trip overall)

mattheus
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby mattheus » 23 May 2019, 2:43pm

kylecycler wrote:
mattheus wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:... not sensible to, effectively, leave it to chance.


You will have a dull life (especially your holidays) if you leave nothing to chance my friend!

Yebbut he might have a longer life than you. :wink:

Probably true, by the sound of things :P

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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Vorpal » 23 May 2019, 2:50pm

kylecycler wrote:Even if none of that ^ applies, you'd have to expect that your rear derailleur is quite likely to go out of alignment - it doesn't take much - and given that a hanger alignment tool is absolutely not the sort of thing you could lug around with you, it's a problem. What you could do, though, is carry a spare mech hanger - or two or even three, they weigh nothing - and just swap them if they get bent. In fact, I guess that would be good policy on any tour.

Makes you realise a bag just doesn't cut it, although without reading this thread and thinking it through that might not have been quite so obvious. And then you read Navrig's post about the guy with the Cervelo in the hard case and you think maybe you shouldn't even bother.

I disconnect the rear hanger and attach it to the chain stay when packing my bike for travel. That has worked well for me each time I've travelled with a packed bike. I don't travel by air with a bike very often, but when I do, I use the Cycling UK polythene bag.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Bonefishblues
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Bonefishblues » 23 May 2019, 2:51pm

mattheus wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
mattheus wrote:
You will have a dull life (especially your holidays) if you leave nothing to chance my friend!

Indeed I would, but you know what, if I'm going on a cycling holiday (which at least in my version of cycling needs a functioning bike or it becomes something of a single centre holiday) or a fishing holiday (needing tackle that's not in bits, or it's not a fishing holiday, at least where I fish) then I think that it's actually rather sensible not to leave it to chance.

I guess I'm dull like that.

Hey, you're talking to someone who has only once flown TO a cycling trip, so I appreciate your POV :)

But one can't rule out everything; there is a chance the airline will lose the bike and/or luggage. Or not even get the plane off the ground (this is my usual experience).
Or you'll get SMIDSYed on the 1st morning. Or mugged for your bike. etc etc ...

We all take chances. (and in this case, taking a chance with a featherweight bag has a lot of advantages, in ways that can improve the trip overall)

I do everything I can to try to ensure that I get to where I need to to when I need to be there (with which I won't bore you), and with what I need, even if just bare essentials (in the case of fishing stuff) so I can do what I set out to do. Once on island, then life becomes much more laid back. However a couple of years ago this chap had other ideas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Matthew

I got as far as Nassau and turned tail, for reasons readily understood.

I could have mitigated that risk by not doing an autumn trip, but the Guide had that opening, and that was all, so off we went, crazy kids that we are.

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kylecycler
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby kylecycler » 23 May 2019, 3:28pm

Vorpal wrote:
kylecycler wrote:Even if none of that ^ applies, you'd have to expect that your rear derailleur is quite likely to go out of alignment - it doesn't take much - and given that a hanger alignment tool is absolutely not the sort of thing you could lug around with you, it's a problem. What you could do, though, is carry a spare mech hanger - or two or even three, they weigh nothing - and just swap them if they get bent. In fact, I guess that would be good policy on any tour.

Makes you realise a bag just doesn't cut it, although without reading this thread and thinking it through that might not have been quite so obvious. And then you read Navrig's post about the guy with the Cervelo in the hard case and you think maybe you shouldn't even bother.

I disconnect the rear hanger and attach it to the chain stay when packing my bike for travel. That has worked well for me each time I've travelled with a packed bike. I don't travel by air with a bike very often, but when I do, I use the Cycling UK polythene bag.

Ah, right, that's a far simpler and more intelligent solution. Just goes to show I've never travelled very far. I seldom even use public transport, with or without the bike - if I can't cycle, I don't go - but if or when I ever do go further afield I'd prefer to take my own bike - hiring one when I get there just doesn't appeal.

Anyway, I've found this thread quite thought-provoking and informative - I might yet spread my wings and fly! :)

nirakaro
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby nirakaro » 23 May 2019, 3:45pm

Worth bearing in mind that the quote upthread is from a professional pilot – their job is to reduce risk to vanishing point. As cycle tourists, we might be OK with a one-in-a-thousand risk – i.e. 99.9% sure of the bike getting there. But to an airline pilot, that's a completely unacceptable level of risk - he's used to expecting a good few more nines after the decimal point.

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kylecycler
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby kylecycler » 23 May 2019, 3:51pm

nirakaro wrote:Worth bearing in mind that the quote upthread is from a professional pilot – their job is to reduce risk to vanishing point. As cycle tourists, we might be OK with a one-in-a-thousand risk – i.e. 99.9% sure of the bike getting there. But to an airline pilot, that's a completely unacceptable level of risk - he's used to expecting a good few more nines after the decimal point.

That's an excellent point, but I think my mindset is more like that of the pilot than the average cyclist. :|

Psamathe
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Re: Abandoned holiday - RyanAir terms and conditions

Postby Psamathe » 23 May 2019, 4:37pm

I see two problems with such cases (the Bike Box Alan)
1. Very very very expensive
2. What to do with it whilst you are travelling (e.g. fly to west coast UK, fly home east coast US).

Ian