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Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 14 May 2019, 8:46pm
by PAB855
I didn't expect to stir things up this much.

I wonder why mjr thinks a flashing light is a waste of energy?

I have for example a Cateye rear light which will last only 3hours on steady but 30hours on flashing. How can that be a waste of energy, surely it's conservation of energy. Yes or no?

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 14 May 2019, 8:59pm
by Thehairs1970
I'd agree

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 14 May 2019, 10:10pm
by m-gineering
Thehairs1970 wrote:So by this logic, Volvo drivers are increasing the likelihood of others cars getting hit because they have day time running lights.

Probably true, just as safety belts kill cyclists

Daytime lights, flashy lights, clothing that makes you visible are a perfectly sensible choice.


If you don't want to get run over you want to achieve two things: you want to be identified as a cyclist, and you want to make it easy for other traffic to judge your trajectory without demanding too much attention. Here cyclists are a steady light, on and off lights spotted in the distance are probably a reflector in the verge. But once you've decided that flashing light is some sort of a vehicle you have to judge it's trajectory, which is much more difficult with a flashing light. Doable if you're fresh, tricky if tired or drunk. You'll have to pay way more attention to the flashing light, which makes you steer in that direction. The number of extremely visble trailers used here to secure roadworks with huge flashing arrows and which get totalled every year isn't funny.

And flashing lights in daytime? That makes you a very special cyclist, who will be treated ' special' . In the Netherlands ' behaving normaly, which is crazy enough' is very much appreciated.

(and if you've choosen a route where you feel you need flashing lights, you've probably bypassed a dozen more attractive alternatives)

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 14 May 2019, 10:28pm
by gaz
PAB855 wrote:I have for example a Cateye rear light which will last only 3hours on steady but 30hours on flashing. How can that be a waste of energy, surely it's conservation of energy. Yes or no?

I expect that the battery in your Cateye rear light will last considerably longer if the switch is left in the off position during the hours of daylight :wink: .

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 14 May 2019, 10:45pm
by mjr
m-gineering wrote:If you don't want to get run over you want to achieve two things: you want to be identified as a cyclist,

Wouldn't it be better to be identified as something which could hurt motorists? :twisted:

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 15 May 2019, 12:38am
by Warin61
mjr wrote:
m-gineering wrote:If you don't want to get run over you want to achieve two things: you want to be identified as a cyclist,

Wouldn't it be better to be identified as something which could hurt motorists? :twisted:


:roll: Identified as a threat.
Such as a police officer.

Back in the old days police used to be low viz, making people actually look ... the most visible motorcycle/car was a black one as that was what the police used. Now you have to be hi viz everything..

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 15 May 2019, 6:46am
by m-gineering
mjr wrote:
m-gineering wrote:If you don't want to get run over you want to achieve two things: you want to be identified as a cyclist,

Wouldn't it be better to be identified as something which could hurt motorists? :twisted:


Over here a cyclist is classed as the weaker party, so the rules are if a cyclists crashes into your car you pay for the dent and the new bike.

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 15 May 2019, 10:43am
by willem jongman
I can imagine there is a point in having a flashing light on a quiet country road. However, in busy Dutch urban traffic a car driver may have to keep track of the whereabouts and directions of a dozen or more cyclists at any one time. If they all had flashingsg lights that would be quite impossible. I still believe good German style generator lights would be much better, combined with a reflective High Visibility vest etc.

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 15 May 2019, 11:41am
by mjr
Thehairs1970 wrote:Daytime lights, flashy lights, clothing that makes you visible are a perfectly sensible choice. Also you asked the OP whether a flag may be a better choice. Isn't that increasing his visibility and therefore creating an expectation?

I just don't get your logic.

My logic is... logic! You can't appeal to logic for adopting those measures because there is little to no evidence of significant reduction in casualty risk from daytime or flashing lights and clothing cannot make you visible or invisible - unless someone's made a cloak of invisibility yet? All of the "be safe be seen" guff is a motoring lobby trick to transfer responsibility from the perpetrator to the victim, much like how annual casualty figures are published classified by victim type and not perpetrator type and that then focuses the annual debate on how those classes of victim should change their behaviour. It's sick and cruel.

The flag was suggested to increase the height of a recumbent bike simply because, sadly, many motorists still don't look low down much - even though they should be watching the flipping road surface for damage these days.

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 15 May 2019, 11:43am
by mjr
m-gineering wrote:
mjr wrote:
m-gineering wrote:If you don't want to get run over you want to achieve two things: you want to be identified as a cyclist,

Wouldn't it be better to be identified as something which could hurt motorists? :twisted:


Over here a cyclist is classed as the weaker party, so the rules are if a cyclists crashes into your car you pay for the dent and the new bike.

I'm sceptical that motorists fear hurt to their wallet as much as they fear being killed, but it's a fair point and a big difference to the car-is-king UK road culture.

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 15 May 2019, 1:04pm
by willem jongman
And there is the difference that in the Netherlands many are not only car drivers but also cyclists at other moments. And even if they are not, their children will be.

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 15 May 2019, 1:26pm
by Ivor Tingting
If I am approached by one of these numptees blinding me with a bright flashing front bicycle light I switch my Max D from low power constant beam to full power and flashing mode aimed up straight at them. That generally gets a barrage of abuse from them as they pass as they can't take what they themselves dish out. If I'm in my car and one of these menace flashing bicycle lights blinds me I put my full beams in flashing mode to see how they like it. Flashing cycle lights are a menace and should be banned. Not only do they blind but it is impossible to tell how far away the light is. The law needs to be rapidly amended as it is out of date to prohibit the manufacture and use of such lights. Motorcycles don't have flashing lights and yet they too are very vulnerable road users. It is yet again a proportion of cyclists being extremely selfish and ignorant of their affect of their actions on others.

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 15 May 2019, 1:29pm
by willem jongman
+1 Flashing lights and rotation symmetric headlights are a dangerous nuisance.

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 15 May 2019, 8:43pm
by Morzedec
'jour, I don't gave a car in France so ride every day with one or two in-line trailers: to the tip, the shop, the bar, or the supermarket. A yellow coat or T shirt, various flags on the trailers, and at night three in-line red lights - one on each trailer and one on the bike. Be seen and be safe, entertain the locals, and in the remote possibility that a policeman should appear in our very rural location he would probably sit on my Holdsworth and ask for a photo.

Life is too short to worry about trivialities: off you go, get riding!

Happy days,

Re: Cycle lights regulations in France, Belgium and Netherlands

Posted: 15 May 2019, 8:55pm
by De Sisti
m-gineering wrote:But once you've decided that flashing light is some sort of a vehicle you have to judge it's trajectory, which is much more difficult with a flashing light. Doable if you're fresh, tricky if tired or drunk. You'll have to pay way more attention to the flashing light, which makes you steer in that direction.

Where is the evidence to prove that?