Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
pwa
Posts: 13892
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Carrying spares - how far do you go?

Postby pwa » 15 Dec 2020, 6:14am

PH wrote:
pwa wrote:
Jdsk wrote:In case anyone's wondering:

Fiber Fix Emergency Replacement Spoke
Jonathan

I've carried one for years but never needed it. It weighs almost nothing, but I wonder how effective it would be at temporarily replacing a spoke.

Review here
https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default ... -rides.pdf

My plan for this roadside quick fix has always been to adjust tension of adjacent spokes first, slackening one side and tensioning the other, to allow initial fitting of the fiber fix with minimal slack to take in, then transfer the excess tension from adjacent spokes to the fiber fix, or as much as it can take. But on a tour I would always have a few spare spokes taped to the seat tube to do a proper job, which would also work out easier, so I am not sure the fiber fix has a role on a tour.

simonhill
Posts: 3342
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 11:28am
Location: Essex

Re: Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Postby simonhill » 15 Dec 2020, 9:12am

Interesting that this post has been combined with tools carried. Makes it a bit clunky.

Glad my posts have a consistent theme.

pwa
Posts: 13892
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Postby pwa » 15 Dec 2020, 3:02pm

Why the change of title? Back and forth. I didn't change the title, it was done already some posts previously.

Maintenance on tour inevitably involves both tools and spares, and your choices on one affects your choices on the other. Taking spare spokes? then you need the tools to change them. Not taking spare spokes? Then you might want to consider a fiber fix. Whatever the thread title, you can't completely separate the spares from the associated tools.

But I think it is best left to the OP to change the title of a thread, if it is to be done at all.

User avatar
Sweep
Posts: 6902
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 4:57pm
Location: London

Re: Carrying spares - how far do you go?

Postby Sweep » 16 Dec 2020, 6:45am

Jdsk wrote:In case anyone's wondering:

Fiber Fix Emergency Replacement Spoke
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/spokes/fiber-fix-emergency-replacement-spoke/

Image

Jonathan

Have you used one?
Recommended?
Would be interested in others views on
Sweep

m-gineering
Posts: 175
Joined: 23 May 2015, 12:01pm

Re: Carrying spares - how far do you go?

Postby m-gineering » 16 Dec 2020, 7:51am

Sweep wrote:Have you used one?
Recommended?
Would be interested in others views on

this is a product that appeals to people who've never turned a spokenipple. To me it is a very fiddly (and expensive) way to do a simple job. I find it way more convenient to carry a few pre made spokes with a z- bend to enable them to be inserted from the wrong end. If the gauge is the same as the original spoke you just tension the spoke until it sounds the same as others on that side and you're good to go. No need tp true, the wheel will be straight and sound enough
Marten

Touring advice for NL: www.m-gineering.nl/touringg.htm

Jdsk
Posts: 6054
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Carrying spares - how far do you go?

Postby Jdsk » 16 Dec 2020, 8:50am

Sweep wrote:Have you used one?
Recommended?
Would be interested in others views on

I've never even seen one. But the topic came up so I added the name, hyperlink and a picture to stimulate debate... and it has. Thanks, all.

Jonathan

Brucey
Posts: 42974
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Postby Brucey » 16 Dec 2020, 9:56am

Z-bend spokes have some attraction but

a) you have to be able to make them to start with (which requires spokes at least 10mm longer than the target spoke)
b) once fitted, such spokes can't be properly stress-relieved (because loads which give good stress-relief will straighten the Z bend)
c) you still may (e.g. in a SF hub) not easily be able to fit a Z bend spoke through the RH side of the driveside flange.

The last of these may mean that the spoke can sensibly only be fitted from the wrong side of the flange and this means it approaches the flange hole at an even less favourable angle than normal. It is of some advantage to have a set of pliers to hand in order that the bend angle can be adjusted; this can make the difference between being able to fit the spoke or not.

Re b), obviously not every wheelbuilder stress-relieves spokes the same way but then again not every wheelbuilder builds properly reliable wheels, either. IMHO if you use a stress-relief method which doesn't tend to straighten Z bends, the wheel may not be fully stress-relieved (which might be why the spokes started breaking to start with) and/or this means that the repair is only temporary; you still need to do a proper repair later on, or accept that the wheel is not as good as it should/could be. [Were it otherwise, we'd all use Z bend spokes, all the time, surely...?]

So I guess a Z-bend spoke is a kind of halfway house, if you can fit one; it is a kind of "better but still temporary repair" ...?

In the grand scheme of things there are various options for when you break a spoke

1) do nothing except make sure the wheel clears the frame/brake;
2) slacken some of the spokes on the other side of the wheel
3) some kind of temporary repair
4) a proper repair

Either of the first two are often enough to permit a day's ride to be completed. A temporary repair is of attraction if it is quicker to do and/or will allow a longer period of use (eg several day's ride at least) before a proper repair is carried out. A proper repair is often the best option in terms of net effort.

It seems a fair number of touring riders either don't worry if their cassette lockrings are not very tight, or indeed deliberately have them set somewhat loose, reckoning that this does no real harm and allows easier driveside repairs to be carried out should the need arise. I'm not convinced that this is entirely harmless (I've seen rather notched steel freehub bodies, even) but it may be a reasonable compromise if some kind of 'cassette cracker' is to be used; some of these tools can put very high loads onto the dropout if the lockring is tight. I have often wondered if there is a different approach.

For example if the lockring can be sufficiently strong/secure (that it doesn't itself back out or allow sprockets to move) but can still be undone easily if required, using something that is not a specific splined tool, but something more general. I have wondered if simply grinding a notch or two into the periphery of the lockring would leave it fit to do its job but also allow a simple drift to be used on it (with the wheel in the frame and a low gear selected). I would expect a suitable drift to fit in the gap between the smallest sprocket and the frame dropout. I have often carried a 4" long flat screwdriver bit in my touring toolkit and this might be all that is required....?

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cyclewala
Posts: 171
Joined: 7 Nov 2019, 11:07am

Re: Carrying spares - how far do you go?

Postby Cyclewala » 16 Dec 2020, 10:03am

m-gineering wrote:
Sweep wrote:Have you used one?
Recommended?
Would be interested in others views on

this is a product that appeals to people who've never turned a spokenipple. To me it is a very fiddly (and expensive) way to do a simple job. I find it way more convenient to carry a few pre made spokes with a z- bend to enable them to be inserted from the wrong end. If the gauge is the same as the original spoke you just tension the spoke until it sounds the same as others on that side and you're good to go. No need tp true, the wheel will be straight and sound enough


Never heard of these before. Looked them up and they look interesting. Are they a permanent fix or just until you get home/to the nearest bike shop?

Mike Sales
Posts: 5447
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Postby Mike Sales » 16 Dec 2020, 10:18am

In his workshop my grandfather had a tool which made a Z bend in a spoke. It had a gauge which was set to determine length. He had a bike shop. J. Moran in Pinxton, if anybody remembers it.
How about filing the head of a normal spoke into the Z shape which would fit?

Brucey
Posts: 42974
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Postby Brucey » 16 Dec 2020, 11:11am

Good tools for making Z-bend spokes are not easily come by. If you want to make Z-bend spokes then this looks like a good design for a tool that can be made easily, starting with a set of pliers

Image

All that is required is to grind a slot in one jaw of a cheap set of pliers. If you want to get fancy the radius of the pliers can be made to give the two bends different radii (which can help in fitting the spokes), and the slot can be set off-centre so that two different lengths of Z bends can be made.

Mike Sales wrote:How about filing the head of a normal spoke into the Z shape which would fit?


I think this could be done but it still leaves the fundamental issue that the spoke can be fitted but should not pull back through the flange when under tension. It is not a question of if such spokes will pull back through the flange, only at what tension they will do so. IME this tension is usually less than that which gives good stress-relief.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

m-gineering
Posts: 175
Joined: 23 May 2015, 12:01pm

Re: Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Postby m-gineering » 16 Dec 2020, 12:38pm

Brucey wrote:Good tools for making Z-bend spokes are not easily come by.


An old hub will work, or a piece of 2mm thick metal with a hole drilled through. It won't be a very tight bend, but that is usefull if you have to plug it in from the wrong side because a disk of cluster is in the way. The repair will be good enough to last a while, and keeps you moving to catch that ferry or that shop about to close. If you don't trust it you can do a proper job on a rest day.
Spokes like this are available ex factory, some big bladed aerospokes are like this to fit hubs with normal holes. Works fine until you properly bend the rim, than the whole show dissassembles itself ;)
Marten

Touring advice for NL: www.m-gineering.nl/touringg.htm

m-gineering
Posts: 175
Joined: 23 May 2015, 12:01pm

Re: Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Postby m-gineering » 16 Dec 2020, 12:41pm

Mike Sales wrote:How about filing the head of a normal spoke into the Z shape which would fit?


fiddly, but that works too. Try it in a hub, you need to file down more than you think
Marten

Touring advice for NL: www.m-gineering.nl/touringg.htm

Brucey
Posts: 42974
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Postby Brucey » 16 Dec 2020, 1:50pm

the thing I like about the slotted plier idea is that the second bend is at a fixed distance from the first, and making the second bend doesn't risk straightening the first one either. Most other improvised tools fall down on one or both of these points.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

djb
Posts: 243
Joined: 24 Mar 2013, 9:27pm

Re: Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Postby djb » 18 Dec 2020, 2:38pm

finally got around to buying a fibrefix thing a few years back, but havent had to use it yet.

Didn't read all the previous posts, but I would mention the importance of a rag, to do the usual fast wipe of excess chainoil that always occurs, and to do the usual regular wipes of jockey pulleys and the occasional "cassette floss". Doing this takes just a minute or two and just as at home, keeps your drivetrain clean and overall cleaning up just faster.

always the analogy of cleaning the kitchen as you go, so its never a big job if you let it go for too long.

with my mechanical discs, Avid BB7, I've added a tiny screwdriver and a very small pair of needlenose pliers, both which make changing out pads easier (for me anyway). The needlenose pliers are good anyway for pulling out embedded car or truck tire wires out of a tire, which can and does happen.

LittleGreyCat
Posts: 871
Joined: 7 Aug 2013, 8:31pm

Re: Maintenance and toolkit when touring

Postby LittleGreyCat » 18 Dec 2020, 7:17pm

simonhill wrote:Interesting that this post has been combined with tools carried. Makes it a bit clunky.

Glad my posts have a consistent theme.


The OP thread finished in the middle of 2019 and the new subject was tacked on the end in December 2020.

I have no idea if the subject was changed by the first December 2020 poster, or if the admins (as they sometimes do) have tacked a new thread onto an old one.