Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby Tigerbiten » 16 Jun 2019, 12:35pm

LittleGreyCat wrote:At my modest average speed of around 12 mph I can pedal successfully on all 3 front rings.
I have in the past found myself on the smallest front ring by mistake and only noticed when the chain grumbled as I went for the smallest rear sprocket.
So speed over the road and cadence can trick one at times.
Which brings me back to indicators on the front which avoid looking back past my ankles. :D

That's right.
If set up correctly then a triple will have roughly 2 sprockets between each chainring and a double will have 3.
So with a 9 block, you should have roughly 5 sprockets you can use with all chainrings, but this does include big-big and small-small.

Because I tend to only use the upper 7 gears on my Rohloff, I don't worry about my min speeds for each range.
But my shift up speeds in 14th gear in each of my ranges are at 14 mph, 20 mph and 35 mph.
Knowing these speed stops me going for 15th gear, most of the times ...... :lol:

So you need to learn the max-min speeds for each chainring.
Once you know speed and chainring, you should know roughly where you are on the block.
Doing this won't stop you going small-small, but it will help.

Luck .............. :D

mattheus
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby mattheus » 18 Jun 2019, 11:52am

LittleGreyCat wrote:At my modest average speed of around 12 mph I can pedal successfully on all 3 front rings.
I have in the past found myself on the smallest front ring by mistake and only noticed when the chain grumbled as I went for the smallest rear sprocket.
So speed over the road and cadence can trick one at times.
Which brings me back to indicators on the front which avoid looking back past my ankles. :D

I get what you're saying. Although I've ridden mostly triples all my life, when I upgraded one of my bikes to 3x10 recently, I found that I'm really poor at knowing what gear I'm in without looking down.

With this bike I find that I rarely need to look at the rear cassette - I can check the front rings to see:
- which one I'm on! and
- if the chain is heading off at a crazy angle.

I'm pretty confident that if I put enough miles on the 3x10 setup (220 this weekend helped a bit) it will get better. I'm not sure what will happen if I split my time between the 3x8 (Ergos), the 3x10(bar-end + STi) and the 1x8 (downtube) commuter! I'd like to think I will become the Superman of feel shifting, ambidextrous across all setups :)

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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby PH » 18 Jun 2019, 12:47pm

Maybe other people use their gears differently, but I spend at least 80% of my triple riding in the middle ring, which is around 30" - 90" or 8 - 20mph at a cadence of 80-90, I probably spend 90% of that time in the middle 7 of 9 on the cassette (9-18mph). There's only three significantly higher gears, which only get used drafting, with a tailwind, long gentle downhills, or if I really feel like trying hard, I know when this is, I'm flying, so it's big ring time, change back down when the fun is over. The two extra gears on the smallest ring see even less use, I know by the look of the hill when I'm going to need them, like with the big gears I don't need to know what gear I'm in, here's a cliff get into the low gears NOW... and back onto the middle when the pain stops. I do occasionally get it wrong and forget to change back, the front mech soon lets me know it's unhappy with the chainline. I found it far more of an issue with a compact double, where the most used gears were across both rings.

*All figures from memory/estimated, but they won't be a far out

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horizon
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby horizon » 18 Jun 2019, 1:12pm

PH wrote: I found it far more of an issue with a compact double, where the most used gears were across both rings.



I have the same problem with my folder having a double - it is my only bike that does. I allow a little bit of cross-chaining or I'd be for ever switching rings.
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby mjr » 18 Jun 2019, 2:10pm

Vorpal wrote:I have some bikes with and some without indicators. Bikes with thumb shifters (tandem, hybrid, MTB) have them, and my road bike with Sora has them.

My tourer, however does not. And although I shift by 'feel' and I have gotten used to it, 2,5 years on, I would still like to have them.

I prefer the function of the Tiagra brifters over the Sora ones, though. If I had to pick between them, I think I'd still take the Tiagra brifters, but I'd be happy to pay a bit extra to get the Sora gear indicators on the Tiagra brifters.

Indicators are just a poor plasticky substitute for using real levers where you can tell what gear you're in by where the lever is. No-one other than racers need their brake levers to wobble sideways, adding complexity and cost while reducing compatibility and functionality. :twisted:

That said, hopefully a solution is in sight and wobbly brake levers will be seen as a temporary aberration. I'll be surprised if Di2 doesn't let you have an indicator display, possibly on a GPS or speedo head unit, as well as having shifting buttons rather than wobbly brake levers.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby mjr » 18 Jun 2019, 2:14pm

dim wrote:so, without a bike fit, if you go on a long ride such an Audax, and after 200km your left wrist is paining, or your right knee is tender, you could say that is because you have a weak wrist or you have a weak knee ...however, the pains could be due to the fact that your bike is not set up properly?

without a proper bike fit, you will never know ... so if you have a bike that you intend to keep for a long time and a bike that you wish to ride long distances, save up and have a proper bike fit

With a proper bike fit, you still will never know. Most fit models come out with slightly different settings and can they all be equally suitable for you? Probably not.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby Vorpal » 18 Jun 2019, 8:42pm

mjr wrote:Indicators are just a poor plasticky substitute for using real levers where you can tell what gear you're in by where the lever is. No-one other than racers need their brake levers to wobble sideways, adding complexity and cost while reducing compatibility and functionality. :twisted:

That said, hopefully a solution is in sight and wobbly brake levers will be seen as a temporary aberration. I'll be surprised if Di2 doesn't let you have an indicator display, possibly on a GPS or speedo head unit, as well as having shifting buttons rather than wobbly brake levers.

That seems rather dismissive of the equipment that a majority of (British) cyclists use.

Personally, while I don't have a problem with friction shifters, and have occasionally reverted to them on a borrowed bike, IMO their main advantage is simplicity. For function, I will take Tiagra any day.
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby Richard D » 5 Jul 2019, 10:26pm

mjr wrote:No-one other than racers need their brake levers to wobble sideways, adding complexity and cost while reducing compatibility and functionality. :twisted:

That said, hopefully a solution is in sight


You’re 100% correct, save that there is already an answer to this problem. Campagnolo. No sideways motion of the brake levers at all. Love mine.

pete75
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby pete75 » 11 Jul 2019, 6:30am

Richard D wrote:
mjr wrote:No-one other than racers need their brake levers to wobble sideways, adding complexity and cost while reducing compatibility and functionality. :twisted:

That said, hopefully a solution is in sight


You’re 100% correct, save that there is already an answer to this problem. Campagnolo. No sideways motion of the brake levers at all. Love mine.

Yes and they can be used easily from the drops.

m-gineering
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby m-gineering » 11 Jul 2019, 6:44am

Richard D wrote:
mjr wrote:No-one other than racers need their brake levers to wobble sideways, adding complexity and cost while reducing compatibility and functionality. :twisted:

That said, hopefully a solution is in sight


You’re 100% correct, save that there is already an answer to this problem. Campagnolo. No sideways motion of the brake levers at all. Love mine.


Campagnolo is pretty limited on low gears for loaded touring though. Sunrace (microshift) 3 x 9v levers are Shimano compatible and work fine with 9sp Shimana mtb mechs & hubs
Marten

Touring advice for NL: www.m-gineering.nl/touringg.htm

pete75
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby pete75 » 11 Jul 2019, 6:58am

m-gineering wrote:
Richard D wrote:
mjr wrote:No-one other than racers need their brake levers to wobble sideways, adding complexity and cost while reducing compatibility and functionality. :twisted:

That said, hopefully a solution is in sight


You’re 100% correct, save that there is already an answer to this problem. Campagnolo. No sideways motion of the brake levers at all. Love mine.


Campagnolo is pretty limited on low gears for loaded touring though. Sunrace (microshift) 3 x 9v levers are Shimano compatible and work fine with 9sp Shimana mtb mechs & hubs


You can have lower gears with Campag ergo than with Shimano sti. Campag will work an mtb front mech on an mtb chainset drop bar sti won't . On the back you can use a 36 tooth sprocket if you want to. Just how low do you want to go?

m-gineering
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby m-gineering » 12 Jul 2019, 8:04am

pete75 wrote:
m-gineering wrote:
Richard D wrote:
You’re 100% correct, save that there is already an answer to this problem. Campagnolo. No sideways motion of the brake levers at all. Love mine.


Campagnolo is pretty limited on low gears for loaded touring though. Sunrace (microshift) 3 x 9v levers are Shimano compatible and work fine with 9sp Shimana mtb mechs & hubs


You can have lower gears with Campag ergo than with Shimano sti. Campag will work an mtb front mech on an mtb chainset drop bar sti won't . On the back you can use a 36 tooth sprocket if you want to. Just how low do you want to go?


Campa is designed for a max tooth of 29, chainwrap 34T. A long cage Shimano does 49 &47T
You'll always want at least one gear lower than you've got
Yes you can fit any FD to ratcheting Campa levers, as long as you don't mind ratcheting like mad to drop de chain from big on the granny. On click short and you're stuck on the middle ring, which happened to me a lot
Marten

Touring advice for NL: www.m-gineering.nl/touringg.htm

pete75
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Re: Buying a touring bike - things I didn't know

Postby pete75 » 12 Jul 2019, 10:09am

m-gineering wrote:
pete75 wrote:
m-gineering wrote:
Campagnolo is pretty limited on low gears for loaded touring though. Sunrace (microshift) 3 x 9v levers are Shimano compatible and work fine with 9sp Shimana mtb mechs & hubs


You can have lower gears with Campag ergo than with Shimano sti. Campag will work an mtb front mech on an mtb chainset drop bar sti won't . On the back you can use a 36 tooth sprocket if you want to. Just how low do you want to go?


Campa is designed for a max tooth of 29, chainwrap 34T. A long cage Shimano does 49 &47T
You'll always want at least one gear lower than you've got
Yes you can fit any FD to ratcheting Campa levers, as long as you don't mind ratcheting like mad to drop de chain from big on the granny. On click short and you're stuck on the middle ring, which happened to me a lot


I take it you've never heard of Shimergo? This article explains https://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-libr ... s/shimergo . I've got it on a couple of bikes and no it doesn't involve ratcheting like mad if set up correctly.