Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

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iandriver
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by iandriver »

gloomyandy wrote:Am I the only one that likes to have four panniers that are not really very full?


Definitely not. I'm taking 4 front panniers away tomorrow. The two on the front will have full sized pillows in. One of the ones on the back will have my Ukulele in.

I'm more than willing to accept a 6% increase in drag to have proper pillows and my Uke. :-)
Supporter of the A10 corridor cycling campaign serving Royston to Cambridge http://a10corridorcycle.com. Never knew gardening secateurs were an essential part of the on bike tool kit until I took up campaigning.....
gloomyandy
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by gloomyandy »

mjr wrote:
gloomyandy wrote:[...] With four I can more easily get to things, [...] they are easier to get on and off the bike and [...]

OK, I'll accept most of your arguments, but how can it ever be easier to remove four panniers and juggle them (usually upstairs on a ferry or in a hostel/hotel/accommodation, and it varies on trains) than two?


Note I said "easier to get on and off the bike" no mention of carrying them around once away from the bike! But anyway... I find that with a full ortlieb pannier the rail with the mounting hooks on it can become curved rather than straight which makes it harder to just drop the pannier onto the rack and have it click into place. A pannier that is not crammed full is usually lighter and so easier to lift on and off the bike. Also not having anything on the rack top makes it much easier to get the rear bags on and off.

Once off the bike then yes they are more bulky (but perhaps not that much heavier than two full panniers), but I don't have much trouble carrying all four into a hotel/hostel (I usually carry one of each in each hand), the lift/carry handles on ortlieb panniers work pretty well for me. Most of my trips are to the Scottish islands and on those ferries I don't remove the bags from the bike. I also find that having front and rear makes it very easy to lean the bike up against the typical bike location on a CalMac ferry and protects the frame from other bikes if they end up stacked against mine.
m-gineering
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by m-gineering »

mjr wrote: The top map pocket has held a solar panel on some tours but this year it'll probably hold my route cue cards because of the new Dutch mobile phone ban.


Het is degene die een voertuig bestuurt verboden tijdens het rijden een mobiel elektronisch apparaat dat gebruikt kan worden voor communicatie of informatieverwerking vast te houden. Onder een mobiel elektronisch apparaat wordt in elk geval verstaan een mobiele telefoon, een tabletcomputer of een mediaspeler.

There is not a ban, you're not allowed to hold a decice for communication or data processing. If it is attached to a bracket you're fine. I'm waiting for an enterprising soul to make a bracket for your phone you can attach to your wrist ;)
Marten

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mjr
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by mjr »

m-gineering wrote:
mjr wrote: The top map pocket has held a solar panel on some tours but this year it'll probably hold my route cue cards because of the new Dutch mobile phone ban.


Het is degene die een voertuig bestuurt verboden tijdens het rijden een mobiel elektronisch apparaat dat gebruikt kan worden voor communicatie of informatieverwerking vast te houden. Onder een mobiel elektronisch apparaat wordt in elk geval verstaan een mobiele telefoon, een tabletcomputer of een mediaspeler.

There is not a ban, you're not allowed to hold a decice for communication or data processing. If it is attached to a bracket you're fine. I'm waiting for an enterprising soul to make a bracket for your phone you can attach to your wrist ;)

That's not what https://www.holland-cycling.com/blog/30 ... ke-illegal says. Who is correct?

Wrist and arm brackets intended for runners already exist.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

From what I've read - but I've no idea how accurate this is (or perhaps more importantly, whether it aligns with how the law will be interpreted in practice) - it's pressing buttons and screens that's illegal. So you'd be fine to have your phone set up on bars to show a route, give directions, etc, as long as you didn't interact with it while riding. And, again according to what I've read, you can touch buttons etc while stationary eg at signals.
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mjr
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by mjr »

Bmblbzzz wrote:From what I've read - but I've no idea how accurate this is (or perhaps more importantly, whether it aligns with how the law will be interpreted in practice) - it's pressing buttons and screens that's illegal. So you'd be fine to have your phone set up on bars to show a route, give directions, etc, as long as you didn't interact with it while riding. And, again according to what I've read, you can touch buttons etc while stationary eg at signals.

...and I have to touch buttons if I miss an announcement or screen flash, which means stopping. I miss them if they come at busy times because I prioritise looking around - so I suspect this stupid law means people who have been causing problems by paying too much attention to their devices are going to look at the navigation instruction or more likely text/chat messages instead of watching the road because if they don't look at it when the screen lights up, then they'll be punished by having to stop.

But for me, it just seems easier to go back to cue cards and maps. I can faff with those (which is less safe than a simple button press or two) while riding without risk of a fine.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
m-gineering
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by m-gineering »

mjr wrote:
m-gineering wrote:
mjr wrote: The top map pocket has held a solar panel on some tours but this year it'll probably hold my route cue cards because of the new Dutch mobile phone ban.


Het is degene die een voertuig bestuurt verboden tijdens het rijden een mobiel elektronisch apparaat dat gebruikt kan worden voor communicatie of informatieverwerking vast te houden. Onder een mobiel elektronisch apparaat wordt in elk geval verstaan een mobiele telefoon, een tabletcomputer of een mediaspeler.

There is not a ban, you're not allowed to hold a decice for communication or data processing. If it is attached to a bracket you're fine. I'm waiting for an enterprising soul to make a bracket for your phone you can attach to your wrist ;)

That's not what https://www.holland-cycling.com/blog/30 ... ke-illegal says. Who is correct?

Wrist and arm brackets intended for runners already exist.


The above bit in Dutch is the actual law (never trust journalist copying journalist), and there are already rulings that pushing buttons on a mounted device is ok
Marten

Touring advice for NL: www.m-gineering.nl/touringg.htm
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mjr
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by mjr »

m-gineering wrote:
mjr wrote:
m-gineering wrote:
Het is degene die een voertuig bestuurt verboden tijdens het rijden een mobiel elektronisch apparaat dat gebruikt kan worden voor communicatie of informatieverwerking vast te houden. Onder een mobiel elektronisch apparaat wordt in elk geval verstaan een mobiele telefoon, een tabletcomputer of een mediaspeler.

There is not a ban, you're not allowed to hold a decice for communication or data processing. If it is attached to a bracket you're fine. I'm waiting for an enterprising soul to make a bracket for your phone you can attach to your wrist ;)

That's not what https://www.holland-cycling.com/blog/30 ... ke-illegal says. Who is correct?

Wrist and arm brackets intended for runners already exist.


The above bit in Dutch is the actual law (never trust journalist copying journalist), and there are already rulings that pushing buttons on a mounted device is ok

Yes, article 61a of RVV1990, but in the spirit of "never trust", what are these rulings, please?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Jamesh
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by Jamesh »

Andrew-l wrote:I'm currently riding the EV6 with a bike packing setup, having previously done chunks of this with panniers when touring with the kids.

Why not panniers this time? Basically because I'm stretching the limits of how far unfit me can go each day, so bike packing bags mean I can take the lightweight bike, and after minimising what I'm taking, I'd only fill half a pannier anyway!

Yeah, it is not as fast to reattach the main bag as it is with panniers, but most of the day I'm cycling, so it stays attached!

And yeah, I can't add any extra shopping, but that's OK as I don't want to carry any extra weight!

It's certainly working for me on this ride. Maybe back to the heavy bike and panniers for the next...DSC_0273.JPG



What have you found to be the limit.

I've found that about 120miles to be reasonable.

When I did 160 miles Cardiff to Chester I was well into the night which wasn't much fun!

Cheers James
m-gineering
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by m-gineering »

mjr wrote:
m-gineering wrote:
mjr wrote:That's not what https://www.holland-cycling.com/blog/30 ... ke-illegal says. Who is correct?

Wrist and arm brackets intended for runners already exist.


The above bit in Dutch is the actual law (never trust journalist copying journalist), and there are already rulings that pushing buttons on a mounted device is ok

Yes, article 61a of RVV1990, but in the spirit of "never trust", what are these rulings, please?


Gerechtshof, Leeuwarden, march 2018 acquited a driver previous fined, as touching a screen in a holder was not deemed equal to holding a phone
Marten

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mattsccm
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by mattsccm »

Can't copy a pic here so a link instead.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bikep ... 2425332052

Hmmm
Andrew-l
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by Andrew-l »

Jamesh wrote:What have you found to be the limit.

I've found that about 120miles to be reasonable.

When I did 160 miles Cardiff to Chester I was well into the night which wasn't much fun!

Cheers James


For me, I planned to do no more than 50-60 miles a day, every day for two weeks. Now one week in, it's feeling like my fitness and speed are saying 60-80. Today I managed to do the 50 miles before lunch!
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

mattsccm wrote:Can't copy a pic here so a link instead.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bikep ... 2425332052

Hmmm

Looks quite a sensible thread on Singletrack World, judging by the first few replies anyway.
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

On barbags and their carrying: today I thought I saw a man with a largeish barbag carried on a strap over his shoulder, walking along the street just ahead of me. Then I spotted the brand name and realized what it was: a camera bag. Remarkably similar shape.
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Re: Bikepacking bags versus rack and panniers: illusion or not?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Update: or is it downdate?
Excellent rack-free luggage that's built to last.

What particular item of bikepacking luggage do you think that quote was about (it's from a review in road.cc).
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