Charging whilst cycling touring??

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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mjr
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby mjr » 15 Jul 2019, 9:27pm

Sweep wrote:
mjr wrote:
Sweep wrote:Very simple maths shows that the majority of small capacity powerbanks, including supposed "economy" models, are appalling value for money.

I have 3 ankers - one about 21000, the other two both around 10000.

What strange maths is that?

10000mAh Anker powerbank £29.95 = £3 per Ah;
6600mAh thumbsup powerbank £5 = 75p per Ah.


The simple maths that uses better input data. I see lots of 5000/6000 units costing £10 or more.
If you are paying £30 for 10000 ankers you should improve your shopping. My two cost half of that. And I paid nothing like that for my 20100 unit.

Well, it's the price shown on a reputable web shop (to reduce the risk of fakes). If you really got two Ankers for £15 (got a link to the shop?), then you only just equalled the thumbsup for £ per Ah and you're stuck with heavier units. If you're seeing lots of 6000mAh units for over £10, then it's you that should improve your shopping!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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ConRAD
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby ConRAD » 15 Jul 2019, 10:16pm

Sweep wrote:...can you answer my repeated repeated question about whether faster charging of the powerbank ... degrades the powerbank cells in any way?


...well. once assumed (in this case) that "charging" basically means to transfer energy (Wh) from the power supply to the powerpack to be charged, this transfer process can be arranged in terms of voltage, current and of course time (hrs).
For sure, very generally speaking, to use a lower current rate is healthier for the powerpack batteries ... but as a drawback, obviously, it takes longer times. To overcome to this problem you may consider other options like double the voltage onto a series battery configuration or double the current onto a parallel battery configuration.
I've no idea how respectively RAV or ANKER (internally) configured their powerpacks ... so I can't give an answer to your question. Maybe somebody else, hopefully, can.
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1982john
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby 1982john » 15 Jul 2019, 11:05pm

lots of deals on powerbanks during amazon prime day

10k for £16
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B079RC1MNV

Warin61
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby Warin61 » 15 Jul 2019, 11:32pm

Sweep wrote:My question though was about faster charging powerbanks. Are there any disadvantages with regard to battery health?


The theory is 'fast charging' any battery shortens it life.

Having said that ... I believe most of the 'damage' is done as the battery gets hot, so initially -when the battery is cooler- fast charging does little harm and gets you good benefits, just turn the charger back to 'normal' charging after that initial period.

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ConRAD
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby ConRAD » 16 Jul 2019, 6:53am

Warin61 wrote:
Sweep wrote:My question though was about faster charging powerbanks. Are there any disadvantages with regard to battery health?


The theory is 'fast charging' any battery shortens it life.
Having said that ... I believe most of the 'damage' is done as the battery gets hot, so initially -when the battery is cooler- fast charging does little harm and gets you good benefits, just turn the charger back to 'normal' charging after that initial period.

Actually we weren't talking about "individual batteries" but rather a certain "batteries arrangement" inside a "powerpack" and the question was whether an excessive charging current might somehow damage those batteries.
Once you connect your power supply to the powerpack input USB interface, whatsoever the USB type is, you can't do too much, you just have to wait for some charging indicator (e.g. leds) to tell you that full charge is complete. That's it, there's no current modulation, ther's no "normal" ..."boost" or whatsoever slow/fast charging option.
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Sweep
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby Sweep » 16 Jul 2019, 11:14am

ConRAD wrote:
Sweep wrote:...can you answer my repeated repeated question about whether faster charging of the powerbank ... degrades the powerbank cells in any way?


...well. once assumed (in this case) that "charging" basically means to transfer energy (Wh) from the power supply to the powerpack to be charged, this transfer process can be arranged in terms of voltage, current and of course time (hrs).
For sure, very generally speaking, to use a lower current rate is healthier for the powerpack batteries ... but as a drawback, obviously, it takes longer times. To overcome to this problem you may consider other options like double the voltage onto a series battery configuration or double the current onto a parallel battery configuration.
I've no idea how respectively RAV or ANKER (internally) configured their powerpacks ... so I can't give an answer to your question. Maybe somebody else, hopefully, can.

Thanks for the answer conrad - have just seen this and have deleted a post I made when I hadn't seen it.

I will stick to my semi obsolete ankers then for it seems that there has been no real advance in the basic tech as yet. When there is I will consider updating them. As so often with tech, despite its apparent lightening progress, it seems to me that manufacturers often cover up an essentially paused tech with "tricks". For of course it's not hard at all to charge stuff faster.
Being a bit dim it took me a while for the light to dawn that I could charge up via mains several powerbanks, so even if they weren't always being charged to full I was effectively (from a user's point of view) multiplying the speed of input. Hence I now have a 4 output anker charger, two 10000 units and one 2100 unit. I owe this lightening insight to some kind soul on here.
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Sweep
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby Sweep » 16 Jul 2019, 11:22am

mjr wrote:
Sweep wrote:
mjr wrote:What strange maths is that?

10000mAh Anker powerbank £29.95 = £3 per Ah;
6600mAh thumbsup powerbank £5 = 75p per Ah.


The simple maths that uses better input data. I see lots of 5000/6000 units costing £10 or more.
If you are paying £30 for 10000 ankers you should improve your shopping. My two cost half of that. And I paid nothing like that for my 20100 unit.

Well, it's the price shown on a reputable web shop (to reduce the risk of fakes). If you really got two Ankers for £15 (got a link to the shop?), then you only just equalled the thumbsup for £ per Ah and you're stuck with heavier units. If you're seeing lots of 6000mAh units for over £10, then it's you that should improve your shopping!

Yes I really really did. I think one came from 7day shop and the other probably from mymemory. The 21000 anker cost me around £23 (so way way below what you quote for a 10000 for offers are quite often available if you aren't in a rush.

As john points out below, there is currently a deal on amazon (though you have to be on prime) so you can still get the 21000 for pretty much what I paid.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-PowerCor ... HLX&sr=8-2


Re the expensive 5000/6000 units I didn't say I actually shopped/bought any did I? I wouldn't be that daft. But there are lots and lots around - often promoted as "trendy" or "street" in some way.

I have never heard of thumbsup - are they any good?

Ankers are in my experience well made and very reliable.

>>and you're stuck with heavier units.

Sorry I don't understand this?

Are thumbsup powerbanks lighter in some clever clever way?
Sweep

HobbesOnTour
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby HobbesOnTour » 16 Jul 2019, 11:52am

EuroV5 wrote:Next month I’m cycling from London to Rome and still haven’t got my bike set how I’d like it. I want to keep my iPhone X, Garmin 820 and GoPro batteries charged while I’m cycling. I have a Shimano hub 6V- 3W. I bought a PowerBUG and connected it to my Dynamo but doesn’t seem to charge my phone up just stays the same level of charge (I tried on a 30 mile ride). I’m now looking at the Busch and Müller USB werk or the E-werk.. Would anyone recommend these or another brand maybe??

I will have a anker 10000 mAh power pack with me also


Oh dear, OP, you're experiencing the best and worst of this forum!

To try to answer your question....
The first thing is to assess your energy needs. Obviously less use requires less power.I don't know the powerbug and I have no idea what kind of juice go-pro batteries need.
I'd suggest that your first step is to charge your powerbank fully and see how many times you can charge each item you will be using. That will give you a baseline for making choices on the road.

Secondly, get out and try to charge your powerbank, preferably in "touring mode" so that your practise is as realistic as possible. This will give you an idea of what you can expect to provide on a daily basis.

Thirdly, check out your garmin connected directly. I tried a garmin once and it would not co-operate with my dynohub.

It might not be a bad idea to pick up a cheap meter to check what the output actually is. Also, not a bad idea to check your connections! :D

My experience:
I use a cycle2charge unit. Relatively cheap, simple and discreet.
I use it to charge a powerbank and from that charge a phone, kindle, ipod (hardly used), tablet (hardly used) and rechargeable batteries for headlamps/bike lights etc. Typically, near the end of the day I'll plug out my powerbank and connect my Wahoo directly. This charges the Wahoo back up to 80-90% for the following day.

On slow sections or lots of stopping or starting I'll plug the powerbank out. I have no scientific basis for this, other than I reckon the charging kicking in and out can't be the best for the powerbank.
I have 26 inch wheels and will generate a constant charge from about 13kph.

Typically I'll carry 2 powerbanks, one 5k and one 10k. I like the redundancy of 2 and it means that I can charge from one while charging up the other when needs must. (On longer tours I also carry a solar panel - but I tend to stop a lot!)

On a 3 week tour from NL to Ireland and back, I left with my 2 banks full and only used my dynohub for charging for the whole 3 weeks. No problem.

Having said that it depends on where you will be staying and your touring style. A long, leisurely lunch will give ample time to recharge a powerbank. But that may not be your style. Some campsites and hostels are more charging friendly than others. Worst case scenario, you can always pick up an extra powerbank en route.

A recent poster, TyreLady had an issue charging her iphone on a long trip. It stopped taking a charge from her dynohub. It would charge from a wall and other items charged from the hub, I believe. Maybe pm her to see if she can throw some light. In any case, the general wisdom is not to connect delicate devices directly.

Finally, there is also the practicality to consider. In fine weather my powerbank sits in a pocket at the side of my handlebar bag with a very short cable to the charger. In less fine weather, I can place the powerbank inside the barbag. In very wet weather I do not connect. When I leave the bike, barbag and powerbank come with me. All that remains on the bike is something the size and shape of a big bell.

In any case, that's a hell of a trip you're about to set off on! Enjoy! :D

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Sweep
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby Sweep » 17 Jul 2019, 11:13am

mjr wrote:
Sweep wrote:Very simple maths shows that the majority of small capacity powerbanks, including supposed "economy" models, are appalling value for money.

I have 3 ankers - one about 21000, the other two both around 10000.

What strange maths is that?

10000mAh Anker powerbank £29.95 = £3 per Ah;
6600mAh thumbsup powerbank £5 = 75p per Ah.


here you are - your lucky day - to you - not £29.95, not even £15, £13 including postage.

And a free 400.

https://www.mymemory.co.uk/anker-powerc ... ZVK,32HP,1

May be handy for you as well euro5, particularly if now and again you can double charge with access to mains.

Enjoy your trip - have had an idea to pedal London to Rome for a fair while - life circumstances have changed at my end but would still be a good thing for me to do I think.
Sweep

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mjr
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby mjr » 17 Jul 2019, 12:14pm

Sweep wrote:
mjr wrote:
Sweep wrote:Very simple maths shows that the majority of small capacity powerbanks, including supposed "economy" models, are appalling value for money.

I have 3 ankers - one about 21000, the other two both around 10000.

What strange maths is that?

10000mAh Anker powerbank £29.95 = £3 per Ah;
6600mAh thumbsup powerbank £5 = 75p per Ah.


here you are - your lucky day - to you - not £29.95, not even £15, £13 including postage.

And a free 400.

https://www.mymemory.co.uk/anker-powerc ... ZVK,32HP,1

£13 per 10.4Ah = £1.25 per Ah, still 67% more expensive than an "appalling value for money" smaller power bank.

Sweep wrote:>>and you're stuck with heavier units.

Sorry I don't understand this?

Are thumbsup powerbanks lighter in some clever clever way?

Only in that a smaller capacity bank is lighter than a big one and the case and controller electronics are negligible weight compared to the batteries, so a smaller bank offers the choice whether to take one, two or three depending on the length of trip and expected availability of charging, but someone with only a 21Ah bank has no choice except to take the whole brick.

thumbsup seem pretty well made. Better than veho. Maybe not as solid as Anker but you pay for Anker's name these days.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Sweep
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby Sweep » 17 Jul 2019, 5:10pm

mjr wrote:Only in that a smaller capacity bank is lighter than a big one and the case and controller electronics are negligible weight compared to the batteries, so a smaller bank offers the choice whether to take one, two or three depending on the length of trip and expected availability of charging, but someone with only a 21Ah bank has no choice except to take the whole brick.

thumbsup seem pretty well made. Better than veho. Maybe not as solid as Anker but you pay for Anker's name these days.


Well I never - a smaller one is lighter.

As indeed, my 10400 ones are lighter than the 21000.

I am no weight weenie anyway when I tour.

I will keep an eye on thumbsup/follow reviews.

Must say I am happy with Anker - seem very well made - I actually find it reassuring that they charge slowly.

I like their unflashiness, the simple indicator system. No digital readouts. No built in torches.

They retain their charge very well as well.

I commend them to the house - when on offer.

Offers very often come up though I now have enough.
Sweep

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mjr
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby mjr » 17 Jul 2019, 5:37pm

Sweep wrote:Well I never - a smaller one is lighter.

That was pretty much my thought when you questioned it! :)

Sweep wrote:I am no weight weenie anyway when I tour.

I'm not too much either, but I don't see the point in lugging a brick around when it's not needed. I'll leave that to Mick F ;)
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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peterdpusey
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Re: Charging whilst cycling touring??

Postby peterdpusey » 18 Jul 2019, 2:16pm

I did Eurovelo 6 last year from Nantes to Budapest and just used a Rab 16750mAh. With my iPhone doing all my navigation. Didn’t have any problems grabbing some power when needed at cafes/bars or campsites when not wild camping. What I would take next time is a plug in socket charger which can charge two devices at once.