Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

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oxfordwheels
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Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby oxfordwheels » 14 May 2020, 11:41am

My partner and I had planned to spend 2020 cycle-touring / camping across western Europe, starting in Spain, and navigating across France, Germany, Denmark, into Norway and then heading south via Sweden and ending up in Croatia. We had a ferry booked for the start of April, but had to put the brakes on the whole plan in March when the full impact coronavirus outbreak became clear.

We expected the whole journey to take us about 7 months (April to October inclusive). We're thinking of putting the tour on hold for a year and starting in April 2021.But because of Brexit it now looks as though UK nationals won't be able to stay in the Schengen area of Europe for more than 90 days out of 180 days, which will mean our tour cannot follow the itinerary we had originally hoped for. (I'm British, my partner is German but has settled status in the UK).

I've been scouring UK government and EU info but all guidance talks about permitting shorter trips only (up to 90 days).

I suppose one option may be to try to spend three months in non-Schengen countries (eg Romania, Ukraine, Russia) as part of the tour.

Has anyone else got any information, experience or ideas about longer term cycle touring in Europe after the end of the Brexit transition?

Thanks

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby Cyril Haearn » 14 May 2020, 11:54am

I think reciprocity shall force a relaxation of the 90 day limit
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whoof
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby whoof » 14 May 2020, 12:11pm

Mrs Whoof rode from the southern most point of Spain to the tip of Norway. Her insurance was for a year and allowed for the total number of days but there was a limit on number of consecutive days.
The solution was 'two' tours. Spain to northern France then a ferry back to the UK for a week followed by France to Norway.

Not suitable for everyone but a possibility.

PH
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby PH » 14 May 2020, 12:51pm

oxfordwheels wrote: it now looks as though UK nationals won't be able to stay in the Schengen area of Europe for more than 90 days out of 180 days,

If it's going to be anything like it is currently for US citizens, it will be 90 days out of 180 without a visa.
I have no idea what the process for obtaining a visa is, or if you'll need it, but based on the number of tour reports I've read by non EU people spending more than 90 days, I'd be planning on the assumption that it'll still be possible.

simonhill
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby simonhill » 14 May 2020, 1:26pm

Not sure Russia is a good bail out option. Visa are slow, expensive and hard to get.

Also they don't like Brits. They recently announced an e-visa (quick and easy to get), but specifically excluded the UK from it.

Until the rules for UK citizens travelling to the EU are established, I think you will have to restrict yourself to planning for the 90 day rule.

simonhill
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby simonhill » 14 May 2020, 1:42pm

For info, a tourist visa applied for in the UK for Schengen is £73.

I also found this:

"If you intend to stay in the Schengen area for over 90 days you must apply for a residence permit (Long stay visa), not a Schengen visa. Instructions are on the respective embassy/consulate’s homepage."

At least those of us who voted to remain can have a whinge, to those that voted to leave, or worse still couldn't be bothered - as you sow, so shall ye reap.

yutkoxpo
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby yutkoxpo » 14 May 2020, 2:09pm

I think it's smart to be thinking about this now.
As with all things Brexit related I don't think we'll know what is going to happen until it has happened.

In the worst case scenario it's probably optimal to have two routes in mind - one with unlimited travel and one without. For the non-Schengen countries now is the time to be researching the ins and outs of visas.

However, I think the biggest potential hurdle to your plans will be Covid 19 and the implications on our hobby.
I wrote this on another thread viewtopic.php?f=16&t=137423

Other than stealth camping (and I'd expect a stronger reaction where it's actually illegal than before) I can forsee limitations in campsites for tents if not outright discrimination in the form of much higher prices and limits on the numbers of pitches.

The cycling will be fine, but everything else will be a major issue. Limited capacity in pubs & restaurants, public transport and in the future, possibly swiftly imposed mini lockdowns.

Unfortunately, I don't see a brighter picture until a vaccine is widely available.



Good luck and please keep us informed on any progress you may be making!

oxfordwheels
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby oxfordwheels » 14 May 2020, 7:01pm

Thanks very much for your thoughts on this subject. I think it's a really good idea to make two plans (ideal scenario and a 90 days max in Schengen scenario), and keep a watching brief on how Brexit plays out.

Also I agree Russia possibly not the cuddliest back up option for a Brit's tour itinerary!

hamster
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby hamster » 14 May 2020, 7:03pm

To be honest at present nobody knows, a combination of Brexit negotiations and Coronavirus.

richardfm
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby richardfm » 14 May 2020, 7:19pm

whoof wrote:Mrs Whoof rode from the southern most point of Spain to the tip of Norway. Her insurance was for a year and allowed for the total number of days but there was a limit on number of consecutive days.
The solution was 'two' tours. Spain to northern France then a ferry back to the UK for a week followed by France to Norway.

Not suitable for everyone but a possibility.

Can you let Mrs Whoof know that I enjoyed reading her blog of the trip. I remembered she came back to the UK for few days but didn't realise why.

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Graham
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby Graham » 14 May 2020, 7:28pm

As far as I'm aware the Schengen limit* of 90 days stay in 180 days pre-existed Brexit.

* for citizens of EU countries outside Schengen zone staying in Schengen group countries

UK was never in the Schengen Zone and was subject to this limit always - in theory -. In practice, it was not applied . . . . but now it is formalised in Visa arrangements it will become significant .

During my last visit to France last summer I noticed that formalities & procedures at the ferry ports, in both directions, seemed more diligent and time consuming. There are now computer systems checking you in and out and counting the days .

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foxyrider
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby foxyrider » 14 May 2020, 8:21pm

Graham wrote:As far as I'm aware the Schengen limit* of 90 days stay in 180 days pre-existed Brexit.

* for citizens of EU countries outside Schengen zone staying in Schengen group countries

UK was never in the Schengen Zone and was subject to this limit always - in theory -. In practice, it was not applied . . . . but now it is formalised in Visa arrangements it will become significant .

During my last visit to France last summer I noticed that formalities & procedures at the ferry ports, in both directions, seemed more diligent and time consuming. There are now computer systems checking you in and out and counting the days .


Nothing had changed from the spring when i travelled at xmas. IME of getting through Dover/Calais you need to travel at busy times, quiet might be nicer but the Border people get bored and take more interest. Don't know how joined up their computers are but they are only doing the same as the airports ie scanning the barcode on your passport and visually looking to see if you resemble the picture on their screen. I fell foul of this a couple of years ago, i'd lost a bit of weight on my trip and apparently looked sufficiently different to get a short interrogation! :lol:
Convention? what's that then?
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whoof
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby whoof » 15 May 2020, 9:07am

richardfm wrote:
whoof wrote:Mrs Whoof rode from the southern most point of Spain to the tip of Norway. Her insurance was for a year and allowed for the total number of days but there was a limit on number of consecutive days.
The solution was 'two' tours. Spain to northern France then a ferry back to the UK for a week followed by France to Norway.

Not suitable for everyone but a possibility.

Can you let Mrs Whoof know that I enjoyed reading her blog of the trip. I remembered she came back to the UK for few days but didn't realise why.

Thank you, I will.

st599_uk
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby st599_uk » 15 May 2020, 12:14pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:I think reciprocity shall force a relaxation of the 90 day limit


According to a Brexit meeting I attended with the Royal Yachting Association, the EU already offered 6 month visa free tourist access for UK nationals and the UK turned it down.

So I'm afraid that cycle touring will be similar to what they said:
  • 90 days in any rolling 180 day window
  • Entrance and exit of Schengen via named entry points only
  • Temporary import licences for any work equipment you're carrying.

Also note that you have to build up to a multiple entrance Schengen visa, so your first one will be single entry.

Obviously, any deal may change these - but it's ominous that we have already turned down the EU's kind offer of 6 month visa free entry.
Last edited by st599_uk on 15 May 2020, 12:40pm, edited 2 times in total.
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st599_uk
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby st599_uk » 15 May 2020, 12:16pm

Graham wrote:As far as I'm aware the Schengen limit* of 90 days stay in 180 days pre-existed Brexit.

* for citizens of EU countries outside Schengen zone staying in Schengen group countries

UK was never in the Schengen Zone and was subject to this limit always - in theory -. In practice, it was not applied . . . . but now it is formalised in Visa arrangements it will become significant ..


No, EU citizens were allowed unlimited access to Schengen states but were required to pass through customs and immigration.
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