Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

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simonhill
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby simonhill » 15 May 2020, 3:21pm

I thought we had unlimited entry, but recent reading has confirmed we were subject to the 90 day rule. Do some googling and reading.

I don't think it was ever enforced as I'm sure there were plenty of Brits who virtually lived abroad without changing their status.

Stated in the first para here:
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/apply-from-uk/

And here if you go to Visa heading, you can see that you can stay for 3 months then have to contact the (French) Embassy.
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advic ... quirements

It seems that you can only stay 3 months then need to register, but I don't know if moving to another country starts a new 3 month period. Clear as mud.

Anyway all change (maybe) in Jan 2021.

st599_uk
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby st599_uk » 15 May 2020, 4:57pm

You're conflating 2 things.

EU Citizens are free to travel anywhere within the EU, but need to pass immigration and customs controls entering Schengen.

EU Freedom of Movement rules allow an EU country to require an EU citizen of another country to register for residency and tax if you intend to stay for more than 3 months and require you to have a job or income. You can be deported for non-compliance (Belgium and Germany do this, the UK never chose to).

As Non-EU citizens, we can get a Tourist Visa for 90 in 180, but it will initially be single entry. We will not be able to simply extend by registering in a country to work, nor will that registration necessarily let us go to another EU country without first returning to the UK.
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simonhill
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby simonhill » 15 May 2020, 6:28pm

I was talking about currently only getting 90 days.

My first link, albeit a commercial site says "Although the United Kingdom is not a member of the Schengen Area, British citizens can travel across Europe visa-free for a maximum of 90 days." I have read the same on other sites. From upthread I think many including the OP thought there was no limit, me being one of them.

I agree that the 2nd link was about extended stay in one country, but it was from HMG and meant as an example of not 'just being allowed to stay as long as you like', again something which many people thought OK.

Of course with lockdown and travel bans, plus leaving the EU this is all a bit academic.

robing
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby robing » 18 May 2020, 12:32pm

richardfm wrote:
whoof wrote:Mrs Whoof rode from the southern most point of Spain to the tip of Norway. Her insurance was for a year and allowed for the total number of days but there was a limit on number of consecutive days.
The solution was 'two' tours. Spain to northern France then a ferry back to the UK for a week followed by France to Norway.

Not suitable for everyone but a possibility.

Can you let Mrs Whoof know that I enjoyed reading her blog of the trip. I remembered she came back to the UK for few days but didn't realise why.

Is the blog still available to read?

robing
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby robing » 18 May 2020, 12:37pm

oxfordwheels wrote:My partner and I had planned to spend 2020 cycle-touring / camping across western Europe, starting in Spain, and navigating across France, Germany, Denmark, into Norway and then heading south via Sweden and ending up in Croatia. We had a ferry booked for the start of April, but had to put the brakes on the whole plan in March when the full impact coronavirus outbreak became clear.

We expected the whole journey to take us about 7 months (April to October inclusive). We're thinking of putting the tour on hold for a year and starting in April 2021.But because of Brexit it now looks as though UK nationals won't be able to stay in the Schengen area of Europe for more than 90 days out of 180 days, which will mean our tour cannot follow the itinerary we had originally hoped for. (I'm British, my partner is German but has settled status in the UK).

I've been scouring UK government and EU info but all guidance talks about permitting shorter trips only (up to 90 days).

I suppose one option may be to try to spend three months in non-Schengen countries (eg Romania, Ukraine, Russia) as part of the tour.

Has anyone else got any information, experience or ideas about longer term cycle touring in Europe after the end of the Brexit transition?

Thanks

This is relevant to me too. I had a rtw trip planned this year and I specifically was going to do Europe first while we still have free travel :(
However, Corona virus has rather blown all this out of the water and the whole trip now looking doubtful.

whoof
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby whoof » 18 May 2020, 8:08pm

robing wrote:
richardfm wrote:
whoof wrote:Mrs Whoof rode from the southern most point of Spain to the tip of Norway. Her insurance was for a year and allowed for the total number of days but there was a limit on number of consecutive days.
The solution was 'two' tours. Spain to northern France then a ferry back to the UK for a week followed by France to Norway.

Not suitable for everyone but a possibility.

Can you let Mrs Whoof know that I enjoyed reading her blog of the trip. I remembered she came back to the UK for few days but didn't realise why.

Is the blog still available to read?

Yes it's on Crazy Guy on a bike.

Try this https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1mr&doc_id=21852&v=kV
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/o=1mrdoc_id=21852v=kv
Last edited by Graham on 19 May 2020, 8:29am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Link corrected

oxfordwheels
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby oxfordwheels » 21 May 2020, 5:06pm

Hello, I am the OP and I thought it worth checking with the EU as it is pretty confusing and there is some contradictory info online. So I emailed Europe Direct, which is a contact centre for the EU, to ask.

In short, they said that during transition period (now) Brits can travel anywhere in EU without restriction but may have to register if they wish to stay in a particular country for more than 3 months. Obviously this is only theoretical currently due to coronavirus restrictions.

From 1 Jan 2021 Brits can travel in Schengen without a visa for 90 days out of 180. They didn't say what happens if Brits want to stay longer, but I interpret it to mean we probably would need a visa or residency permit to stay longer. I expect some countries may police this more strictly than others.

I guess it's possible the transition period might yet be extended for a short while. But in any case what a shame to limit our freedom to live in and explore Europe.

This is the relevant bit of a very long response Europe Direct sent back:

"Until the end of the transition period, British citizens can travel to the Schengen area just like EU citizens. They are not limited to a stay of 90 days in any 180 days period. If however they want to stay more than three months in one country, they might have to register their residence. You can find more information here:
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/t ... dex_en.htm

"Regarding the period after the end of the transition period, the EU has amended its Visa Regulation (EU) 2018/1806 to exempt UK nationals intending to visit the EU from the visa requirement for stays of no more than 90 days in any 180-day period (subject to reciprocity by the United Kingdom in relation with the EU). This amendment will enter into force on the day EU free movement law ceases to apply to UK nationals (that is, on 1 January 2021)."

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foxyrider
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby foxyrider » 21 May 2020, 7:02pm

Thanks Oxfordwheels for getting that clarification.
Convention? what's that then?
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robing
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby robing » 22 May 2020, 6:38pm

oxfordwheels wrote:Hello, I am the OP and I thought it worth checking with the EU as it is pretty confusing and there is some contradictory info online. So I emailed Europe Direct, which is a contact centre for the EU, to ask.

In short, they said that during transition period (now) Brits can travel anywhere in EU without restriction but may have to register if they wish to stay in a particular country for more than 3 months. Obviously this is only theoretical currently due to coronavirus restrictions.

From 1 Jan 2021 Brits can travel in Schengen without a visa for 90 days out of 180. They didn't say what happens if Brits want to stay longer, but I interpret it to mean we probably would need a visa or residency permit to stay longer. I expect some countries may police this more strictly than others.

I guess it's possible the transition period might yet be extended for a short while. But in any case what a shame to limit our freedom to live in and explore Europe.

This is the relevant bit of a very long response Europe Direct sent back:

"Until the end of the transition period, British citizens can travel to the Schengen area just like EU citizens. They are not limited to a stay of 90 days in any 180 days period. If however they want to stay more than three months in one country, they might have to register their residence. You can find more information here:
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/t ... dex_en.htm

"Regarding the period after the end of the transition period, the EU has amended its Visa Regulation (EU) 2018/1806 to exempt UK nationals intending to visit the EU from the visa requirement for stays of no more than 90 days in any 180-day period (subject to reciprocity by the United Kingdom in relation with the EU). This amendment will enter into force on the day EU free movement law ceases to apply to UK nationals (that is, on 1 January 2021)."

Sorry oxfordwheels, I'm a bit thick. Does that mean after we've left the EU we'll be exempt so able to stay in Schengen area longer than 90 days?

st599_uk
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby st599_uk » 23 May 2020, 11:58am

robing wrote:Sorry oxfordwheels, I'm a bit thick. Does that mean after we've left the EU we'll be exempt so able to stay in Schengen area longer than 90 days?


No, it means we will be exempt from any tourist visa rules if (and only if) the UK reciprocate and allow EU citizens to have the same rules in the UK.

The UK government have already said no according to a members email from the Royal Yachting Association.
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doodah
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby doodah » 28 Jul 2020, 10:22am

Let us suppose we are given a 6 month travel of Europe after 1 Jan 2021 - visa or otherwise - what is the consensus on finding a campsite with ease, with facilities and that will accept cyclists given that CV19 could well rear its ugly head in winter?

I realise there are implications of Brexit but it will be CV19 that imposes the restrictions on the campsites - not personal nationalities.

Is it a case of forgetting the planning now and seeing what winter and 1 Jan 2021 bring?

Not being pessimistic, just realistic and would welcome all thoughts as and when each development occurs.

Thanks

Doodah

PaulaT
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby PaulaT » 28 Jul 2020, 1:50pm

doodah wrote:Let us suppose we are given a 6 month travel of Europe after 1 Jan 2021 - visa or otherwise - what is the consensus on finding a campsite with ease, with facilities and that will accept cyclists given that CV19 could well rear its ugly head in winter?

I realise there are implications of Brexit but it will be CV19 that imposes the restrictions on the campsites - not personal nationalities.

Is it a case of forgetting the planning now and seeing what winter and 1 Jan 2021 bring?

Not being pessimistic, just realistic and would welcome all thoughts as and when each development occurs.

Thanks

Doodah


Europe is a pretty big place and infection rates will vary from country to country and region to region just as they do now. So I think it will depend on where you are at the time and what the situation is in that area. You might get lucky and find yourself always in an area where infection rates are low and thing are pretty normal. Or you might find yourself stuck in a region under lockdown. I think you also need to factor in that as a cycle tourist you may find it harder to keep up the sort of hygiene regime in terms of hand washing and face mask cleaning that we can do at home. That lower level of hygiene over such a long time _might_ put you at greater risk of catching the virus.

djb
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby djb » 28 Jul 2020, 2:13pm

re campgrounds--local Canadian examples and present day situation aside, I've been planning a five or six day trip for the near future and the campgrounds that I've been seeing on my intended route are all operating, but with the standard covid precautions noted of social distancing, masks etc
I'll be going to more far off, not particularly touristy areas, so a whole different kettle of fish than a European trip--and anyway, logically we all know that we can hope for the best with this situation, but we don't know how next summer will be anywhere.

doodah
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby doodah » 28 Jul 2020, 3:18pm

PaulaT wrote:
Europe is a pretty big place and infection rates will vary from country to country and region to region just as they do now. So I think it will depend on where you are at the time and what the situation is in that area. You might get lucky and find yourself always in an area where infection rates are low and thing are pretty normal. Or you might find yourself stuck in a region under lockdown. I think you also need to factor in that as a cycle tourist you may find it harder to keep up the sort of hygiene regime in terms of hand washing and face mask cleaning that we can do at home. That lower level of hygiene over such a long time _might_ put you at greater risk of catching the virus.


I was rather thinking of the OP and his travels through Europe where there could be a rigorous enforcement of quarantine or self isolation as borders are crossed? It would appear that there is no encouragement for long term planning as can be evidenced from the UK’s government on people currently returning from Spain. Possibly as a cyclist, ones immune system may build up Better than in a home environment. <SNIP> I would even argue that plumbers and sewage workers will have a better immune system than most people on account of what they are dealing with daily. I digress....I believe that the last lines from djb sum it up “but we don’t know how summer will be anywhere”. Perhaps I will have to be patient and await the outcome from Bojo & Co and Mr Covid before doing further planning.
Last edited by Graham on 28 Jul 2020, 6:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
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simonhill
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Re: Longer term cycle touring in Europe after 2020

Postby simonhill » 28 Jul 2020, 4:18pm

The recent Spanish quarantine has shown that planning even 3 weeks ahead can be problematical. I usually start my touring in late September but this year I am only thinking of places that I may be able to go to. I have a mental list, but it hasn't gone much further that. I'm happy to go at the drop of a hat so am just keeping my eyes on what possibilities there are.

I'd be very wary of camping in January unless I knew that campsites were going to be open. If a stringent lockdown comes wherever you are, you could be stuck in your tent for a month or more. On my first camping in the UK in July this year I met a couple of grey nomads* who were just leaving after having been in lock down on that campsite near Ongar (Essex) since March. Luckily, they had a big motorhome.

(* An Aussie term for retired people who shut up/sell their homes and long-time tour in caravans, motorhomes, etc)