Sustrans no good for touring

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
PH
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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby PH » 12 Jul 2020, 10:53am

leftpoole wrote:The routes which were supposed to be an ideal world for cycling are simply in my opinion ridiculous!
John

All of them?

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leftpoole
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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby leftpoole » 12 Jul 2020, 10:55am

PH wrote:
leftpoole wrote:The routes which were supposed to be an ideal world for cycling are simply in my opinion ridiculous!
John

All of them?

Many. Not one proper route from A to B. Except stuff like Bristol to Bath route maybe. But overall bits cobbled together.

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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby mjr » 12 Jul 2020, 6:14pm

leftpoole wrote:I am a former Driving Instructor. I know all new drivers are taught to treat cyclists with respect, the same as pedestrians who walk across the road without looking for traffic.

:lol: I've had plenty of near misses with driving school cars and I know one person on here has exchanged words and formal complaint after one instructor told their student not to stop for a Cycleway crossing and then insisted the cyclist was in the wrong. We're a long way from all new drivers being taught as you'd wish or teach.
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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby Cyril Haearn » 12 Jul 2020, 6:25pm

mjr wrote:
leftpoole wrote:I am a former Driving Instructor. I know all new drivers are taught to treat cyclists with respect, the same as pedestrians who walk across the road without looking for traffic.

:lol: I've had plenty of near misses with driving school cars and I know one person on here has exchanged words and formal complaint after one instructor told their student not to stop for a Cycleway crossing and then insisted the cyclist was in the wrong. We're a long way from all new drivers being taught as you'd wish or teach.

One fears they try to teach them to pass the test :?
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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby PH » 12 Jul 2020, 8:52pm

leftpoole wrote:[Cycles belong on the road.John

What a real shame that anybody should tell cyclists where they belong, even more so on a cycling forum where the person saying it is a fellow cyclist.

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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby Bmblbzzz » 12 Jul 2020, 9:31pm

Sadly, I have to agree with mjr about driving instructors. While I've no doubt most are considerate of all road users (including the inanimate surroundings) and that leftpoole was one such, there are many who are "petrolheads" in the worst way.

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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby Vorpal » 13 Jul 2020, 11:56am

mjr wrote:
leftpoole wrote:I am a former Driving Instructor. I know all new drivers are taught to treat cyclists with respect, the same as pedestrians who walk across the road without looking for traffic.

:lol: I've had plenty of near misses with driving school cars and I know one person on here has exchanged words and formal complaint after one instructor told their student not to stop for a Cycleway crossing and then insisted the cyclist was in the wrong. We're a long way from all new drivers being taught as you'd wish or teach.

One local road near where I lived in Essex was a common place to take driving students to practice on single track lanes, and I had a number of unfortunate encounters there, to the point that I stopped using it as a cycle route, even though it was otherwise one of the more pleasant lanes in the area.
I had close passes from both students and instructors, and an instructor shouting at me when they went past. A couple of my encounters were bad enough to prompt me to write to the national companies whose names were on the cars. One of them, I had my kids with, tandem and trailer.
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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby Cyril Haearn » 13 Jul 2020, 12:01pm

Not to mention practising reversing round corners, backing into parking spaces in MY leafy suburb, they practise again and again :?

Do driving instructors actually tell their learners to stop at STOP signs?
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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby pete75 » 14 Jul 2020, 9:32am

mjr wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I always understood that since Sustrans routes were developed with and significantly financed by LAs, they were required to include certain areas such as railway stations. This would inevitably take them through some town centres.

They were also funded by a lottery grant to sign 5000 miles and be within 1 mile of 55% of the population which sometimes led to visiting towns or passing by villages which make little sense otherwise IMO. Lynn to Holbeach is one example: National 1's bendy village-hunting via Wisbech is 50% longer than Local 9 and B1359 (the former A17), although Lincs CC's bad attitude to cycling makes me suspect they refused to speed-limit or widen the B road.

The cycle travel route planner often but not slavishly incorporates National Cycle routes and is a useful planner.

Agreed.


I know the leader of Lincs CC who lives in my village. He's a keen cyclist.

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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby pete75 » 14 Jul 2020, 9:58am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
mjr wrote:
leftpoole wrote:I am a former Driving Instructor. I know all new drivers are taught to treat cyclists with respect, the same as pedestrians who walk across the road without looking for traffic.

:lol: I've had plenty of near misses with driving school cars and I know one person on here has exchanged words and formal complaint after one instructor told their student not to stop for a Cycleway crossing and then insisted the cyclist was in the wrong. We're a long way from all new drivers being taught as you'd wish or teach.

One fears they try to teach them to pass the test :?


Er yes. That's what the pupils are paying them for.

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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby mjr » 14 Jul 2020, 10:03am

pete75 wrote:
mjr wrote:B1359 (the former A17), although Lincs CC's bad attitude to cycling makes me suspect they refused to speed-limit or widen the B road.


I know the leader of Lincs CC who lives in my village. He's a keen cyclist.

But what does he do for it? Derek Murphy, former leader of Norfolk CC, is a keen cyclist, but NCC were still pretty poor for cycling under him. Unless the leader is willing to make the case for decent space for cycling (of any type, even speed limited wide minor/B roads) in their party and their council, them being a cyclist themselves doesn't seem to be sufficient.

It can even be unhelpful, if they reply that it's good enough for them when someone complains that little Johnny has no safe route to school or their tricycle doesn't fit through the illegal cycle track barriers.
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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby mjr » 14 Jul 2020, 10:04am

pete75 wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
mjr wrote:We're a long way from all new drivers being taught as you'd wish or teach.

One fears they try to teach them to pass the test :?


Er yes. That's what the pupils are paying them for.

I paid mine to teach me to drive, not only what's in the test.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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pete75
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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby pete75 » 14 Jul 2020, 1:11pm

mjr wrote:
pete75 wrote:
mjr wrote:B1359 (the former A17), although Lincs CC's bad attitude to cycling makes me suspect they refused to speed-limit or widen the B road.


I know the leader of Lincs CC who lives in my village. He's a keen cyclist.

But what does he do for it? Derek Murphy, former leader of Norfolk CC, is a keen cyclist, but NCC were still pretty poor for cycling under him. Unless the leader is willing to make the case for decent space for cycling (of any type, even speed limited wide minor/B roads) in their party and their council, them being a cyclist themselves doesn't seem to be sufficient.

It can even be unhelpful, if they reply that it's good enough for them when someone complains that little Johnny has no safe route to school or their tricycle doesn't fit through the illegal cycle track barriers.

In other words a council leader who cycles knows that it isn't the very dangerous activity that little Johnny's parents and, apparently, you perceive it to be.

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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby pete75 » 14 Jul 2020, 1:14pm

mjr wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:One fears they try to teach them to pass the test :?


Er yes. That's what the pupils are paying them for.

I paid mine to teach me to drive, not only what's in the test.


I paid mine to teach me how to pass the test. I already knew how to drive.

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Re: Sustrans no good for touring

Postby mjr » 14 Jul 2020, 1:27pm

pete75 wrote: In other words a council leader who cycles knows that it isn't the very dangerous activity that little Johnny's parents and, apparently, you perceive it to be.

Where did that come from? I don't perceive it to be dangerous, but I know that others do and it stops them riding and decades of advertising-based encouragement has not changed that perception. If you have to invent views for me, then your argument is probably too weak to survive.

Also, do you really think that the likes of making the B1359 max 40 mph, removing the centre line and marking wide advisory cycle lanes wouldn't reduce danger at all? Or they could create a cycleway with kerbs or new tarmac but LCC would probably stuff it up and put it on the south side across the industrial entrances - and make it lumpy to boot!
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