saddle bag for ultralight touring

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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andrew_s
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby andrew_s » 17 Aug 2020, 7:31pm

willem jongman wrote:So what would my minimum consist of?
I would comment that when trying to go lightweight, it can often be the volume that's the problem, rather than the weight.

willem jongman
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby willem jongman » 17 Aug 2020, 8:48pm

True. With traditional panniers my quantum leap was to reduce volume to the extent that I no longer needed front panniers. The next one came when I reduced volume even more so I could replace a set of 1900 gram and 40 litre Ortlieb rear panniers by a 1050 gram set of 33 litre Altura Arc 15 panniers.

whoof
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby whoof » 18 Aug 2020, 9:22am

A couple of weekends ago I was planning to go camping. Ride after work on Friday and then camp on Friday and Saturday night returning on Sunday afternoon.

I was pondering which bike and luggage to take so got everything out and weighed it. I ended up using an aluminium road bike with an Apidura seat pack, Planet X barrel bar bag and small frame bag and an Alpkit stem pod. Packed with all of my gear it weighed 1kg less that my tourer with no luggage (a Surly LHT).

Bar bag: sleeping mat, sleeping bag inner, tarp, swimming gear, insect head net and boxer shorts.
Seatpack: sleeping bag, tools, towel, spare cycling shorts & socks, down jacket, hat, knees, water proof jacket, gillet. Ground sheet attached to outside.
Stem pod: 500ml steel pot/mug, meths stove, matches,wind shield, tea & coffee, spoon, breakfast cereal & snacks
Frame bag: head torch, toiletries, phone, small lock, Sun cream, buff, spare AA batteries (Garmin)

willem jongman
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby willem jongman » 18 Aug 2020, 9:59am

That is roughly my idea as well.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby Bmblbzzz » 18 Aug 2020, 1:10pm

andrew_s wrote:Image
An alternative - just a Bagman support, but a front rack for the sleeping bag.

Love this photo! Is that a Singular Peregrine?

Richard D
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby Richard D » 19 Aug 2020, 7:56am

I wondered how little I could get away with for a night or two, and found that there was plenty of space in a bar bag up front for the sleeping bag & mat, with everything else on the back in a Nelson Longflap.

I’ve used the Nelson for commuting for 5+ years now, but it’s usually overkill for that.

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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby Richard D » 19 Aug 2020, 8:07am

willem jongman wrote:So what would my minimum consist of? A light weight solo tent (1.8 kg including footprint), a Neoair and PhD bag (1.2 kg together), a change of clothing, and usually something warmer for the evening. For toiletries a minimalist micro towel, a toothbrush, and that is about it. For food I would probably first take a bowl of cold salad and some bread. If and when I decide I like this format I might get myself a Caldera Sidewinder alcohol stove and pot kit, to heat up some freeze dried meal and make some coffee.


Similar kit here. Originally "forced" on me due to the choice of Tubus Airy rack only really mounting front panniers, so I went looking for kit where low volume was even more important than low weight. Things like caldera cones and speed lite stove (it’s not often that the ultralight item is so cheap - under £4 for the stove); a cheap down quilt that compresses to 1.5L, flat sandles or flip flops for off the bike, tiny (and I mean tiny) USB head torch, and a tent that at 1.8kg is roomier than it has any right to be (Robens Verdin - a tent that proved to be so unpopular it was discontinued after just one season, leaving me to pick one up at half price; head room's lower than I would like, but it’s a small compromise when you’re paying £300 for something so lightweight).

willem jongman
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby willem jongman » 19 Aug 2020, 10:23am

My tent and sleeping kit for such ultralight trips would be the same as for my longer trips. The difference would mostly be the extra clothing needed for longer trips and in case the weather turns colder or wetter, the extra food, the Trangia 27 rather than just a very basic stove, or the second spare tube rather than just the one I would take on a short trip. In the end, all these things add up, and are not necessary for one or two nights.
In the colder season this minimalism no longer works, of course, and I expect to use my loaded tourer, carrying a warmer sleeping bag and warmer clothing in smallish panniers. But I might skip all cooking gear, and look for a campsite with a restaurant to sit in at night rather than shiver in the dark.

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andrew_s
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby andrew_s » 19 Aug 2020, 11:16am

Bmblbzzz wrote:Love this photo! Is that a Singular Peregrine?

It is, but it's now dead (broken frame), and has been replaced by a Disc Trucker.

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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby Bmblbzzz » 19 Aug 2020, 11:30am

Sorry to hear that.

willem jongman
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby willem jongman » 20 Aug 2020, 9:59am

I think what I will do is put in service a very old Carradice saddle bag that I bought when I was working in the UK in the late seventies. It is a nylon one with the size of roughly a Nelson (without the long flap). I will strap the tent on top, and see how it goes (I am using a Nitto R10 rack/support for stability). If I like the setup I will get a new one, either a Nelson Longflap, or a Camper as some have suggested, depending on my experience.

djb
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby djb » 16 Sep 2020, 10:24pm

willem jongman wrote:Thank you all for your contributions and thought provoking alternatives. For my longer tours I not only have a sturdier bike but also light weight gear and pannier bags, typically some 12-15 kg. However, this ultralight idea would be for something quite different: the very minimum for a two or at most three day trip from home, to extend my range beyond what I can do on a one day round trip, and to use a somewhat zippier bike still capable of mild forest trails. Conditions would be pretty predictable, and if bad weather was predicted I would either not go, or use the proper tourer and take more gear. So what would my minimum consist of? A light weight solo tent (1.8 kg including footprint), a Neoair and PhD bag (1.2 kg together), a change of clothing, and usually something warmer for the evening. For toiletries a minimalist micro towel, a toothbrush, and that is about it. For food I would probably first take a bowl of cold salad and some bread. If and when I decide I like this format I might get myself a Caldera Sidewinder alcohol stove and pot kit, to heat up some freeze dried meal and make some coffee.
So none of this is really sustainable for a longer trip, but quite doable for one of one or two nights. The extra advantage would be that packing and clearing up afterwards is also less work.


I have a small Trangia mini kit , stove and one small alum pot (1 litre I think) , stove and stand inside pot. Works very well for basic heating up / boiling water for coffee or tea. Small MSR fuel bottle or even a small plastic bottle for alcohol. Fairly compact setup, but I recently got a titanium mug with lid, 850ml , that the trangia and mini stand still fits into--slightly lighter than the pot setup and slightly less packing volume also, plus I can get away with not bringing my plastic mug.
I find a single pot setup works fairly well and in a pinch one can still make pasta and eat out of it, just need a spork, knive or whatever you prefer. I put a. plastic spork, plastic knive and my swiss army knife in a bag and thats all the utensils I need.

djb
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby djb » 19 Sep 2020, 4:16pm

Re pannier weights, Here in Canada, the pannier company Arkel came out with a set of ultra light 25L panniers called Dry-Lites. Roll top type waterproof that have a very simple velcro top attachment system and simple bungee and hook lower.
They weigh in at about a pound and are a good alternative to larger heavier panniers.
Main downside is not easy on easy off.

Still would be tricky for me anyway for volume of my sleeping bag, camp mat, camp pillow and extra room for food etc, but are great for non camping stuff and combined with my ortlieb handlebar bag give a resonable volume, plus it's easy to strap a drybag on top of rack also.

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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby willem jongman » 21 Sep 2020, 2:59pm

In fact I own a set of the Drylites. They are indeed a bit hard to get on and off, but more importantly they are really not as large as Arkel claims: they are smaller than Ortlieb front rollers. So yes, for these very short trips they are an option, and I have used them for that.

djb
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Re: saddle bag for ultralight touring

Postby djb » 21 Sep 2020, 3:46pm

willem jongman wrote:In fact I own a set of the Drylites. They are indeed a bit hard to get on and off, but more importantly they are really not as large as Arkel claims: they are smaller than Ortlieb front rollers. So yes, for these very short trips they are an option, and I have used them for that.


I agree on the volume. They may have changed them slightly, mine are the early ones. But yes, compared to front rollers the ortliebs are more spacious. I use front rollers regularly.

The Dry-lites are nice and less boxy in shape, if you are going to be riding faster. Combine with a drybag on top of rack and it does make a more sleek setup. Add handlebar bag, maybe a frame bag if you have one, and you'd add a reasonable amount of volume and still better for headwinds etc, ie a faster bike.