Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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pjclinch
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby pjclinch » 22 Oct 2020, 2:35pm

PH wrote:I also have a non cycling specific Parmo jacket, it's good if it's cool enough, or I'm not riding very hard, though it's a bit of a chore to keep it waterproof.


Wash it in pure soap once in a while, wash it in TX-10 once every quite a long while. It's not really any worse than keeping the DWR on the face fabric of a conventional waterproof in trim. On a conventional waterproof "reproofing" doesn't actually affect the waterproofing, but if does affect the ability of the outer fabric to shed drips rather than have them soak in and create a water layer over the waterproof barrier rendering it pretty much not breathable.
If the DWR in a Paramo is out of sorts the liner will stop acting as a "pump", moving water to the outside layer. The outer shell just has to keep the worst off so the liner isn't overwhelmed, it isn't and doesn't need to be waterproof.

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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby PH » 22 Oct 2020, 2:47pm

pjclinch wrote:
PH wrote:I also have a non cycling specific Parmo jacket, it's good if it's cool enough, or I'm not riding very hard, though it's a bit of a chore to keep it waterproof.


Wash it in pure soap once in a while, wash it in TX-10 once every quite a long while. It's not really any worse than keeping the DWR on the face fabric of a conventional waterproof in trim. On a conventional waterproof "reproofing" doesn't actually affect the waterproofing, but if does affect the ability of the outer fabric to shed drips rather than have them soak in and create a water layer over the waterproof barrier rendering it pretty much not breathable.
Pete.

. . . . . . < SNIP - unnecessary> . . .
It's three cycles of the washing machine, followed by at least two days drying time for those without access to outside drying. Not doing so results in a soggy heat sapping rag as opposed to a loss of breathability on a hardshell like the Showers Pass and as already mentioned the breathability of that is largely created by the venting. My Parmo needed redoing twice last winter, the first place it starts letting water in is at the shoulders where a backpack rubs, a pretty poor design for something intended to be used with one...

thirdcrank
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby thirdcrank » 22 Oct 2020, 2:50pm



Well done for getting one cheap. Apart from anything else, if you come off when wearing it, then the scraped fabric will cause less heartache.

I've posted before that cycling must be the extreme test of any waterproof + breathable garment: one minute the wearer is working hard going relatively slowly uphill, the next whizzing downhill at speed making little or no effort. It's almost inevitable (inevitable?) that when riding in rain, the front of the jacket will get wet and condensation will form inside where the outside is wet, leading to the mistaken assumption that the fabric isn't waterproof. Over the years, there have been developments like DWR which help the rainwater to run off and mesh linings can distance the wearer from condensation, but the basic choice is to be cold and wet from rain or warm and wet with condensation.

djb
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby djb » 22 Oct 2020, 3:22pm

Re hoods and water down neck. My rain jacket fits snug around my neck, handy if cool, but more importantly I use one of those waterproof helmet covers.
Bright yellow for visibility for cars, and keeps water off neck rather well.

As mentioned, layers underneath appropriate to temps is important to not get chilled, as in Proper Rain (TM) over time we will be damp inside

tatanab
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby tatanab » 22 Oct 2020, 3:45pm

Hood - I last tried a hood about 15 years ago. A separate one so that it turned with my head. Only once did I wear it because the noise of the rain on the fabric covering my ears was so great that I could not hear the approaching traffic. It was back to a flat cap for me and a fairly tight jacket collar when it rains.

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pjclinch
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby pjclinch » 23 Oct 2020, 3:32pm

PH wrote:It's three cycles of the washing machine, followed by at least two days drying time for those without access to outside drying.


Wash is one, proof is two... not sure what the third one is! Tumble dry cool makes it much quicker. Those can be used at launderettes so you don't need your own.

PH wrote:Not doing so results in a soggy heat sapping rag as opposed to a loss of breathability on a hardshell like the Showers Pass and as already mentioned the breathability of that is largely created by the venting.


My memories of using pre-breathable fabrics don't really line up with that suggestion tbh.

PH wrote:My Parmo needed redoing twice last winter, the first place it starts letting water in is at the shoulders where a backpack rubs, a pretty poor design for something intended to be used with one...


Not sure what you're doing differently to us, but the missus and I do ours every few years and they seem to work okay.

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ossie
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby ossie » 23 Oct 2020, 7:13pm

Yet to find the holy grail of cycling jackets, that said I also need lightweight which adds further complication.

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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby PH » 23 Oct 2020, 9:16pm

pjclinch wrote:Not sure what you're doing differently to us, but the missus and I do ours every few years and they seem to work okay.
Pete.

Who knows, maybe wearing it more often.
Paramo's advise is to wash it every 4-6 weeks if using regularly and they suggest it will need reproofing every 4-6 washes, that is IME overoptimistic, though not as optimistic as you.
TechWash used to recommend running a washing machine without detergent before use, I'm aware they changed that to just cleaning the detergent tray a few years ago, but those of us with older washing machines might still prefer to follow the old advise.
The issue with backpack straps wearing away the DWR is well documented.
I've commented that it's a bit of a chore to keep a Paramo waterproof, you've suggested less so because you can take it to the laundrette every time you wash it (Every 4-6 weeks if you're following the advice). YMMV but that pretty much defines a chore to me.
Last edited by PH on 23 Oct 2020, 9:27pm, edited 1 time in total.

JakobW
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby JakobW » 23 Oct 2020, 9:22pm

The Gore Shakedry stuff is supposed to be brilliant, but it's relatively fragile (so no rucksacks), and is very expensive.

I run hot, so just resign myself to being warm and wet rather than cold and wet - I don't bother with waterproofs unless it's chucking it down.

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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby pjclinch » 24 Oct 2020, 7:33am

PH wrote:
pjclinch wrote:Not sure what you're doing differently to us, but the missus and I do ours every few years and they seem to work okay.
Who knows, maybe wearing it more often


That's entirely likely. I only wear waterproofs if it's chucking it down or set in for the day. I prefer other options for other times, and that does have quite an effect on DWR degradation.

PH wrote:TechWash ...


Whatever else I can save you some money there. The USP of TechWash is, ironically, that there's nothing whizzy hi-tech about it, it's simply a pure soap. And there are others on the market that are a lot cheaper, e.g. Dripak Liquid Soap Flakes.

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thirdcrank
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Oct 2020, 7:56am

I've been using that Dripak stuff for a while. I bought a single bottle to try and when I found it seemed OK I bought a box of 6 from Amazon which was a price saving.

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Sweep
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby Sweep » 24 Oct 2020, 9:41am

thirdcrank wrote:I've been using that Dripak stuff for a while. I bought a single bottle to try and when I found it seemed OK I bought a box of 6 from Amazon which was a price saving.

Interesting - thanks you two folks for that info - been vaguely looking for some simple soap product for a while (challenges my eyesight to figure out what chemists may have put in their endless new improved heavily advertised concoctions)

Some more info for other interested folk here:

https://www.dri-pak.co.uk/laundry-products/liquid-soap/


Two particularly interesting bits of info on availability there.

1: Unusually for a manufacturer they seem to volunteer info on its availabiity as an own-brand - in this case wilko.

2: Also available from an outfit that appears to glory in the less than soapy clean name of Yorkshite Trading (until you click the link)
Last edited by Sweep on 24 Oct 2020, 9:59am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby PH » 24 Oct 2020, 9:55am

Sweep wrote:1: Unusually for a manufacturer they seem to volunteer info its availabiity as an own-brand - in this case wilko.

Thanks for that, I was aware that the supposed specialist wash products could be replaced with liquid soap, but I'd no idea the Wilko stuff I've been using was so highly regarded.

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Sweep
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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby Sweep » 24 Oct 2020, 9:59am

PH wrote:
Sweep wrote:1: Unusually for a manufacturer they seem to volunteer info its availabiity as an own-brand - in this case wilko.

Thanks for that, I was aware that the supposed specialist wash products could be replaced with liquid soap, but I'd no idea the Wilko stuff I've been using was so highly regarded.

actually you can return the favour - have just been looking for wilko liquid soap and can't find it.
Do you have a link or can you say what it says on the label /post a pic of it?
Sweep

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Re: Cycle Jacket, Breathable & Waterproof

Postby PH » 24 Oct 2020, 10:03am

Here you go
IMG_0077[1].JPG