EU VISAs after Brexit

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by Jdsk »

Psamathe wrote:
Jdsk wrote:....
Astrobike wrote:Also my European health card is valid until December 2021 is this not now invalid since
(Cough) we became a sovereign nation and lost control ?

TTBOMK EHICs issued before 1/1/2021 will be valid, but I can't find much in writing and I don't know if cover will still be the same as it was.

Jonathan

Presumably only until the expiry date printed on the particular card (my assumption, no specialist knowledge).

Yes, AFAIK.

Jonathan
simonhill
Posts: 5226
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 11:28am
Location: Essex

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by simonhill »

At risk of being hoisted by my own (pedantic) petard, for visits as a tourist under 90 days in 180 no Visa is needed (visa free entry) as said before. However how this is controlled is yet to be seen. From what I have read it is up to the travellers to keep an eye on their time in the Schengen area. A helpful calculator exists for this https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/visa-calculator/

I'm sure a lot will become clear(er) as time goes on, but no mention so far of entry/exit stamps with helpful "leave by dates". Travelling within the area is no problem, but if leaving, eg to Cyprus or Croatia then it is essential you get stamped out of Schengen to stop the clock.

I would think that all State Agencies (Police, Health, ??) in Schengen will have access to the database of entry/exit to see if you are legal.
nsew
Posts: 1006
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by nsew »

simonhill wrote:At risk of being hoisted by my own (pedantic) petard, for visits as a tourist under 90 days in 180 no Visa is needed (visa free entry) as said before. However how this is controlled is yet to be seen. From what I have read it is up to the travellers to keep an eye on their time in the Schengen area. A helpful calculator exists for this https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/visa-calculator/

I'm sure a lot will become clear(er) as time goes on, but no mention so far of entry/exit stamps with helpful "leave by dates". Travelling within the area is no problem, but if leaving, eg to Cyprus or Croatia then it is essential you get stamped out of Schengen to stop the clock.

I would think that all State Agencies (Police, Health, ??) in Schengen will have access to the database of entry/exit to see if you are legal.


Every time you enter a country you’re on a visa, visa waiver scheme or not. It’s a misleading term. Application for a Schengen visa is now made at port of entry. Passports are electronically scanned at all Schengen borders, have been for a while. It’s the responsibility of the traveller to keep count and obviously in their best interests. Later this year digital pre entry acceptance must be obtained before “applying” for a visa at the border.
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by willem jongman »

See here for a report on current post Brexit restrictions on travel to the Netherlands and Germany because of Covid: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... oronavirus
tommydog
Posts: 287
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 6:48pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by tommydog »

Any idea what would happen if you exceed the 90 day EU limit? Say if I was cycling from UK to Turkey - there is no passport control anywhere in the EU, so it would only come to notice once I tried to leave Bulgaria to Turkey. Practically what would they do? Would they just issue you with a fine, or deport you at the border to Turkey?

The only experience I have of overstaying a visa was years ago in Ukraine. When I tried to cross to Russia, I was challenged by a Ukrainian border official and ended up paying a small bribe / fine. I was then happily on my way.
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by Jdsk »

tommydog wrote:- there is no passport control anywhere in the EU

There can be. The Schengen Agreement only applies to certain privileged travellers, and even those can be stopped for security or criminal checks *etc. But in practice there's very little.

tommydog wrote:Practically what would they do? Would they just issue you with a fine, or deport you at the border to Turkey?

Probably very little, and the first is a lot more likely than the second. : - )
You could be asked to confirm your location with local authorities until you've left.

But the breach would be on the databases for further attempted visits...

Jonathan

* eg:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
"Portugal has since reintroduced checks several times along its border with Spain, during the UEFA Euro 2004 championships and when Portugal hosted the NATO 2010 Lisbon summit. The most recent checks were temporarily reintroduced on the border from 10 May 2017 to 14 May 2017, during Pope Francis's visit to Fátima, Portugal."
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by Psamathe »

tommydog wrote:Any idea what would happen if you exceed the 90 day EU limit? Say if I was cycling from UK to Turkey - there is no passport control anywhere in the EU, so it would only come to notice once I tried to leave Bulgaria to Turkey. Practically what would they do? Would they just issue you with a fine, or deport you at the border to Turkey?

The only experience I have of overstaying a visa was years ago in Ukraine. When I tried to cross to Russia, I was challenged by a Ukrainian border official and ended up paying a small bribe / fine. I was then happily on my way.

https://immigrationandmigration.com/overstaying-in-the-schengen-zone-heres-how-to-extend-your-schengen-visa/
https://twomonkeystravelgroup.com/overstay-your-schengen-visa/
I'm still unsure if UK citizens would be travelling using a "Schengen visa" or under different arrangements (as it's looking like we don't have to apply for nor pay for a Schengen visa) so different penalties might apply - but I'd guess as the limits are the same the penalties will be the same.

Fines can be a bit "interesting". I spoke to one person overstaying in Ecuador and they were given the choice of paying a US$160 or never being allowed back into the country ever again. They can't take money off you that you don't have and holding you in the country is a bit self-defeating. But reality with EU much more likely to be they find you have credit cards or something so would expect payment.

Ian
st599_uk
Posts: 1092
Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by st599_uk »

We'll be traveling on a Schengen Visa Waiver, which has the same rules as a Schenegen Visa, but without the need to pre-apply for the Visa (From 2022 you will need to pre-apply and pay for a 2 year waiver).

The penalties depend upon where you are (Germany is the strictest), how long you overstay and if you breach any of the Visa rules (for example working without a permit.

You can be fined, deported or banned from re-entering. If you're deported, you're normally deported to the passport issuing country (and charged the costs), not to your destination.

Even if you aren't, once you have Illegal Immigrant stamped in your passport, you'll find entering most countries becomes much harder.
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
tommydog
Posts: 287
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 6:48pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by tommydog »

Psamathe wrote:Fines can be a bit "interesting". I spoke to one person overstaying in Ecuador and they were given the choice of paying a US$160 or never being allowed back into the country ever again. They can't take money off you that you don't have and holding you in the country is a bit self-defeating. But reality with EU much more likely to be they find you have credit cards or something so would expect payment.


That's a good point. It reminds me of a friend of mine who was a hippy in the 1960s. He travelled around the world hitch hiking and breached nearly every Visa requirement in the world (often entering without even having a visa)! Most of the time they tried to fine him, but when it emerged he really had no money, they simply kicked him out to the next country!

Really, I can't see places like Bulgaria doing very much at all if a long haired hippy with non money turned up trying to leave the country. If that person really had no money, It would seem a huge waste of resources trying to detain that person, especially if all they wanted to do was to leave the country.
tommydog
Posts: 287
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 6:48pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by tommydog »

st599_uk wrote:You can be fined, deported or banned from re-entering. If you're deported, you're normally deported to the passport issuing country (and charged the costs)


If you have no money, or refuse to pay the costs, I can't see how they could recover the costs of deportation. The costs incurred by a foreign government deporting you are not recoverable in a UK court.

Having read the webpage regarding being banned from re-entering, it seems to only be for a limited period, unless on national security grounds.


st599_uk wrote:Even if you aren't, once you have Illegal Immigrant stamped in your passport, you'll find entering most countries becomes much harder.


I suppose in that case, people will just "loose their" passport (or their passport may even be coming up for renewal anyway) and apply for a new one. They could even legally change their name and apply for a new passport in their issuing country.
st599_uk
Posts: 1092
Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by st599_uk »

tommydog wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Fines can be a bit "interesting". I spoke to one person overstaying in Ecuador and they were given the choice of paying a US$160 or never being allowed back into the country ever again. They can't take money off you that you don't have and holding you in the country is a bit self-defeating. But reality with EU much more likely to be they find you have credit cards or something so would expect payment.


That's a good point. It reminds me of a friend of mine who was a hippy in the 1960s. He travelled around the world hitch hiking and breached nearly every Visa requirement in the world (often entering without even having a visa)! Most of the time they tried to fine him, but when it emerged he really had no money, they simply kicked him out to the next country!

Really, I can't see places like Bulgaria doing very much at all if a long haired hippy with non money turned up trying to leave the country. If that person really had no money, It would seem a huge waste of resources trying to detain that person, especially if all they wanted to do was to leave the country.


The Schengen system is centralised, it's no longer the 60s. So even if Bulgaria just decided to kick you out, you're marked on the database as overstaying.
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
rualexander
Posts: 2639
Joined: 2 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Contact:

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by rualexander »

tommydog wrote:Any idea what would happen if you exceed the 90 day EU limit? Say if I was cycling from UK to Turkey - there is no passport control anywhere in the EU, so it would only come to notice once I tried to leave Bulgaria to Turkey. Practically what would they do? Would they just issue you with a fine, or deport you at the border to Turkey?
.


Bulgaria is not in Schengen so the 90/180 rule does not apply there.
They probably have their own Bulgarian visa/visa free rules, but you can probably take a bit longer on your trip to Turkey. Also Romania is not in Schengen either so not governed by the 90/180 rule.
So Hungary would probably be your last Schengen country on the way to Turkey.
tommydog
Posts: 287
Joined: 11 Feb 2017, 6:48pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by tommydog »

rualexander wrote:Bulgaria is not in Schengen so the 90/180 rule does not apply there.
They probably have their own Bulgarian visa/visa free rules, but you can probably take a bit longer on your trip to Turkey. Also Romania is not in Schengen either so not governed by the 90/180 rule.
So Hungary would probably be your last Schengen country on the way to Turkey.


Thanks for pointing this out - here is a map
Image
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: EU VISAs after Brexit

Post by Jdsk »

"Mastercard will increase fees more than fivefold when a British shopper uses a debit or credit card to buy from an EU-based company, sparking alarm among companies that rely on online payments and concern among MPs over higher consumer prices.

"Mastercard and Visa levy an “interchange” fee on behalf of banks for every debit or credit card payment that uses their networks. The EU introduced a cap in 2015 after concerns the hidden fees were leading to hundreds of millions of euros in costs for companies and higher prices for consumers.

"But Mastercard has told merchants that the cap no longer applies to some transactions post-Brexit, because payments between the UK and European Economic Area are now deemed “inter-regional”."


https://www.ft.com/content/39f553a0-00c5-48ad-a8ee-0b9fd75554b0
(may be paywalled)

Jonathan
Post Reply