Should I worry about freewheel axle?

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Bice
Posts: 82
Joined: 18 May 2020, 7:33pm

Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby Bice » 20 Dec 2020, 4:49pm

Wish I had read this post before lacing these wheels:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=106231&start=15

I laced both wheels, as I thought I had made a mistake and wanted to know where. I have, but not one of inconsistency.

A Ryde Sputnik 26 inch is a rare "type 2" rim hole offset in Roger Musson's terminology (pp9).

I will re-lace the front wheel accordingly.

The only problem at present is the valve hole is not between two parallel spokes on both sides. On the rear drive side the spokes cross, although there is plenty of space for a pump, and the spokes are parallel on the off-side.

I am uneasy about these wheel rims, to be frank. (I am also aghast at the idea of bending the eyelets, because Ryde did not align these in the first place, which Brucey addresses)

Is there a lighter, better quality alternative to Sputniks?

Key Spoke - Trailing - Next To Valve Hole?

viewtopic.php?t=106231

viewtopic.php?t=95639



531colin wrote:Sheldon......

".............Rims are drilled either "right handed" or "left handed". This has to do with the relationship between the valve hole and the spoke holes. The spoke holes do not run down the middle of the rim, but are offset alternately from side to side. The holes on the left side of the rim are for spokes that run to the left flange of the hub. With some rims, the spoke hole just forward of the valve hole is offset to the left, with others it is offset to the right (as illustrated). Which type is "right handed" and which "left handed"? I have never met anyone who was willing to even make a guess!

The key spoke will be next to the valve hole in the rim, or one hole away.

As viewed from the right (sprocket) side of the hub, the key spoke will run counterclockwise, and it will go to either the hole just to the right of the valve hole (as illustrated) or the second hole to the right, depending on how the rim is drilled. The aim is to make the four spokes closest to the valve hole all angle away from the valve, giving easier access to the valve for inflation..................."
Daily: Carlton Courette 1982 mixte frame, 42, 32, 22 7-speed on Tiagra
Favourite: Lazzaretti steel 1996 10-speed 48/34
Trek 1.7 10-speed triple 2010;
Ciocc steel 1984 50/34 7-speed used for Eroica in Italy
Marin Bolinas Ridge MTB c1995, 7-speed triple

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 20 Dec 2020, 9:21pm

Hi,
Sorry...

I think that the eyelet problem (hardly noticeable left right orientation) creates a poor excuse for what could be a very good rim, if a tad too over weight.
My set sits hanging in the office.
Trouble with tweaking things that are riveted is that you always feel bad when it goes loose or fall apart.......perhaps I am being too pessimistic :P
Why they aren't like my old mavics I don't know.
They are deep side walled though which might save some grace, standard rims normally only just have enough land for the brakes.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

nsew
Posts: 723
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby nsew » 22 Dec 2020, 1:06pm

Bice wrote:
A Ryde Sputnik 26 inch is a rare "type 2" rim hole offset

I am uneasy about these wheel rims, to be frank. (I am also aghast at the idea of bending the eyelets, because Ryde did not align these in the first place, which Brucey addresses)

Is there a lighter, better quality alternative to Sputniks?



DT Swiss 535

https://www.rosebikes.com/dt-swiss-535- ... le-2667446

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SteeveC
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Joined: 22 Dec 2020, 2:59pm

Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby SteeveC » 22 Dec 2020, 3:05pm

Keep on top of your tyre pressures, and maintain your wheels so they are of correct spoke tension and true then you should have no worries. Mountain bikes are designed to cope with huge forces coming down rough terrain, what you propose will be fine.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby Brucey » 22 Dec 2020, 9:04pm

FWIW Sputniks are left handed or right handed either randomly or with rim size. Most of the 700C Sputniks I have seen in recent times have been left-handed, but 26" ones have been right handed (i.e. like mavics). I don't claim to fully understand the reasons for this but I note that BITD when Rigida were all made in France, Rigida rims were all right-handed.

However most Alesa rims (and I believe the Sputnik is basically a rejigged Alesa 'Endeavour' rim more or less) and many older Weinmann rims (also from the Alesa factory) were all left handed. So when Rigida acquired (?) or combined with most of Alesa (the remaining assets from Alesa became part of EXAL, I think) they started making a mixture of rim types, left and right handed, and have carried on even now they are called 'ryde'. Today I think most Ryde rims are right handed but there are a few which are not!

FWIW I think there is enough room to get a pump into a 36 spoke 700C wheel wherever the valve ends up, but having said that, I'd be annoyed if I'd built the wheels so the valve wasn't in the usual position.

re alternatives; you can get lighter, but not really stronger/more durable, not in a rim braked rim. Most alternatives have very thin braking surfaces by comparison.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bice
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Joined: 18 May 2020, 7:33pm

Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby Bice » 28 Dec 2020, 10:36pm

Well, I finished the Sputnik wheels today, after re-lacing them, and I am pleased with them.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. It should help others attempting the same thing.

The existing wheels were very cheap, single-walled wheels, thin spokes on Altus hubs. But they were nice in being light.

The Sputniks are much tougher. Also heavier: the old front wheel was a kilo with quick release; the sputnik front is 1.1 kilo (these weights are without tyres).

Compared with 700mm road wheels, these are very solid wheels and not nearly so skittish to true.

I did the rear on a 137mm hub, moving the 1.5mm spacer from the drive side to off-side and adding a 2mm spacer to the off-side to reduce dish, as recommended by nsew. That was a good tip.

I reckoned the ERD of the Sputniks at 542mm, which was correct. I am glad to have ignored the given ERD by shops of 537mm, which is not right. Although 263mm front spokes were a couple of mms long; 261mm and 260mm at the rear were correct.

Precise spoke lengths are very useful if you are in a hurry when wheeelbuilding. Possibly when you use a nipple driver with a short tip. Mine has a 3mm tip, and spun out when the spokes were still very loose. This meant I had to press down on a spoke at the nipple with a screwdriver to engage the nipple with the Spokey key.

I found the trailing spokes on this 26 inch rim and hub tightened much earlier, not unsurprisingly when measured. But this evens out, as you tighten up.

I de-stressed the spokes by treading on them in soft shoes, which is not a technique I have done before - I usually squeeze with thick leather gloves - but is very effective.

I went to the supermarket today with the new wheels, loaded at least 10 kilos and no pinging from the spokes at all. I went over every pothole I could find: wheels are true. I intend to use them regularly to let everything bed in before I use loaded and over distance.

These wheels are certainly not for speed, but they seem to me to be pretty good work-horses ... Just don't pay any attention to the given ERD.

The STX hubs are really rather refined.
Daily: Carlton Courette 1982 mixte frame, 42, 32, 22 7-speed on Tiagra
Favourite: Lazzaretti steel 1996 10-speed 48/34
Trek 1.7 10-speed triple 2010;
Ciocc steel 1984 50/34 7-speed used for Eroica in Italy
Marin Bolinas Ridge MTB c1995, 7-speed triple

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby Brucey » 28 Dec 2020, 11:20pm

Bice wrote:….Compared with 700mm road wheels, these are very solid wheels and not nearly so skittish to true....


559 rims are only about 10% smaller diameter than 700C rims , but it is always surprising how much of a difference this makes; 559 wheels always seem disproportionately stiffer and stronger than larger ones. When built with a sputnik rim it is difficult to imagine anything much stronger, near that weight, anyway.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 29 Dec 2020, 1:14am

Hi,
So how strong do you go with rims........do you then use single butted spokes or even plain?
Do you want stiff as a board, or is it better with some give?
Downside of flexible is brake rub when standing.
Downside of thick spokes is maybe spoke loosening?
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

nsew
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Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby nsew » 30 Dec 2020, 7:17am

Congrats. The tyres chosen will make a significant difference to speed, I think we covered that. I’d run the old wheels through the winter muck. Salmon Kool Stop pads are the gentlest on rim surfaces and will stop the bike on a dime.

Bice
Posts: 82
Joined: 18 May 2020, 7:33pm

Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby Bice » 30 Dec 2020, 6:20pm

nsew wrote:Congrats. The tyres chosen will make a significant difference to speed, I think we covered that. I’d run the old wheels through the winter muck. Salmon Kool Stop pads are the gentlest on rim surfaces and will stop the bike on a dime.


Yes, thanks, and for your excellent tips to reduce the dish.

I am surprised my Continental Comfort Contact semi-slicks don't seem well regarded, at least for general use.
Daily: Carlton Courette 1982 mixte frame, 42, 32, 22 7-speed on Tiagra
Favourite: Lazzaretti steel 1996 10-speed 48/34
Trek 1.7 10-speed triple 2010;
Ciocc steel 1984 50/34 7-speed used for Eroica in Italy
Marin Bolinas Ridge MTB c1995, 7-speed triple

nsew
Posts: 723
Joined: 14 Dec 2017, 12:38pm

Re: Should I worry about freewheel axle?

Postby nsew » 30 Dec 2020, 10:16pm

I don’t know that tyre, I have a pair of comfy 2” Conti Sport Contacts on a wheel set here and I’ve used folding Conti Travel Contacts before which I gave up on due to the way they handled on Alpine descents. I remember shredding both tyres on a hard shoulder in nowhereville Estonia and having to bus to a town 50km away where I found Conti Road? Contacts that got me home. Do my touring on Schwalbe Marathon and Supreme these days.