Angstrom wrote:Fascinating thread. There's a new bike line from Decathlon which took several years to design and manufacture, and folks who've only read a web page and seen a photo comment on design issues, sturdiness etc. THere's even a criticism that the pricier version (although never seen before at that price point) being rigged with many parts that are considered on the websphere as being excellent, is less good than the cheaper version!!!!
This is a rather obtuse response.
The pricier version is, er, pricier, and contains a lot of Marmite parts such as SRAM 1x and a pricey canvas saddle.
The cheaper version is well, cheaper, and since money doesn't grow on trees, it's much more appealing to most people for that reason.
Decathlon has become the #1 bicycle seller over the years and in markets they serve. THere is a good reason. Their recipe has been the same from the start:
1) design their own products by people who practice the sport
2) determine the value proposition including price point which will make a market segment reach way beyond what it is currently. In other words, sell products that grow the market significantly beyond its current base (which explains that other competitors usually benefit too)
3) not let themselves be bound by the established conventions in that sport
4) not only design products, but work with manufacturers on the manufacturing process to reach the specified outcome, both technical and business
5) commit on the long term to ensure products are improved over time
They have started to do this on bikes and they have very quickly become in France (where they started) the #1 volume seller. Their 90s Rockrider MTBs (steel frame) is still very sought after on the second hand market for building heavy duty touring bikes.
They have done it in so many sports but the iconic product they have done it is camping with their "2 seconds tent".
Decathlon are not the #1 seller in all the markets they serve at all. They are present here in Indonesia but their products are very uncompetitive compared to Indonesian-built MTBs, which are better than their not particularly inspiring MTBs, and indeed tend to be more appealing than Decathlon's offerings in the UK as well (via retailers such as Halfords and Go Outdoors, who have put out some very good keenly priced MTBs)
In the UK Decathlon sold a slightly random collection of hybrids including at one point a hub gear offering, most of which were not particularly inspiring to UK consumers.
OTOH their sub-£1k road bikes have been very appealing because they were cheaper than other options.
Their stuff will always sell because it's cheap, but most of their bikes are uninspiring and other shops such as Evans have offered better hybrids for the UK market. Most of their models are generic aluminium hybrid/MTB-alike, which is entirely uninspired and interchangeable with any other generic bike.
They are now coming to bike touring and bikepacking.
Just like before, people who consider themselves "experts" are nit picking and criticizing. Decathlon couldn't care less because they never focus on the existing niche's specialists. They care about reaching new customers. And I believe they will change the market with this offering again.
Maybe, maybe not. The idea that they will inevitably dominate with each new launch is rubbish, frankly, and proven to be false by some of their past efforts.
The next step: bikepacking bags and panniers
That is excellent news. I've been mortified by the prices asked for good and durable panniers and bikepacking gear.
Decathlon pretty much sell everything, including as people have noted here, tools for French hunters. I looked at their panniers in the shop a couple of years ago, and they were plainly not nearly as good as Ortliebs, so I bought those instead. And they were substantially more expensive than generic cheap panniers.
My wife has had several of the cheap Chinese panniers, which are good for looking cheap and not being stolen. They don't last that long, which is fine because they are cheap.
I did the math once on the whole bike price issue. I checked back in time and compared how much bike the minimum wage monthly salary could get me. The result is stunning. In the seventies, the relative quality (comparison between entry-level and high level) bike one could get was far better back then than now. This in spite of the work being mostly done in far-away cheap labor countries, robots, CAD systems and all sorts of innovations that make manufacturing a bike easier, quicker and cheaper. The reason is very simple: money goes elsewhere: executives, marketing etc. Decathlon is good because it brings volume into the equation and prices their products n a way that expands the market. But it also helps because by doing so it makes other brands get their acts together.
Not sure what you mean by 'entry-level vs high-level' being better then, but a 70s bike is a different thing - worse shifting, tyres, brakes, etc. Perhaps more appealing as an object of fetish in terms of 'a craftsman made this', but a modern entry-level bike is very good.
In 1973 you could buy a bike from Argos with 3 gears or 5 for £30:
https://issuu.com/retromash/docs/argos-no01-1973-74 (p225)
A woman's FT weekly wage was £20
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hans ... erage-wageToday MW is £350
I think it would be difficult to argue that a modern £525 bike is not very much better than that.
And of course all the cheapness you refer to exists. You can buy a new bike from Argos for £100. It won't be very good, but the fact it exists and is very much cheaper than the cheapest bike in 1973 makes it difficult to argue that somehow marketing is making things more expensive.
It's not as if Decathlon are alone in making cheap bikes that aren't £100 rubbish, either. Halfords have made various grades of 'cheap bike', ranging from 'cheap and nasty' to 'good value' for decades.
I will not buy Decathlon's new line because what I have is just fine for me to enjoy bike touring. I don't need more. But I think it's fantastic for people getting into bike touring. My son wants to get into MTB Bikepacking and he could not believe the prices of the rig from the Apidura's of the market. Neither could I.
With all your talk of marketing you seem to have missed the real purpose of 'bikepacking', which is to sell new product, be it odd shaped bags, or bikes. The Decathlon bike here is more expensive than it needs to be because the manufacturers are charging a premium for hydraulic brifters. The fact that this makes a £1400 bike 'good value' is only really because SRAM/Shimano charge so much in the first place, not particularly any inherent value proposition that makes a hydraulic road bike hundreds of pounds more expensive than a flat bar one.
There's many millions in marketing into such genres that is underpinning the fact that Decathlon are selling this at all, and essentially Decathlon benefit from the marketing that has gone into creating all these products that consumers wish to consume. You don't go to Decathlon to buy a wetsuit because they had anything to do with the development of scuba diving, but because other people did and they sell it cheaper.
Same applies here. They don't create niches, just sell things cheaper. Not a bad thing, and there is some engineering effort into cutting costs. (And of course their tents appeal because they are much cheaper than lighter better stuff from other manufacturers).