Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby Tangled Metal » 23 Dec 2020, 11:12pm

Jdsk wrote:Thermogenesis means making heat... I'm not aware of any special property of peanuts in that regard. But they are about half fat by mass.

Jonathan

AIUI it's digestion of food that creates heat. The point of peanuts us the high protein and fats in them even without roasting. Fats and to some degree proteins, are energy dense. As your body temperature regulation uses energy to create heat, shivering for example but also before that, then they make good food to provide the energy long term while sleeping. I'm guessing carbs are less important and perhaps could trigger an insulin response I suppose.

I got that from an expert in outdoors nutrition in a walking magazine. He's a guy who earns a living advising people on nutrition for their activities, working for people pushing the boundaries such as polar explorers and high altitude mountaineers.

Jdsk
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby Jdsk » 23 Dec 2020, 11:18pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Thermogenesis means making heat... I'm not aware of any special property of peanuts in that regard. But they are about half fat by mass.

AIUI it's digestion of food that creates heat. The point of peanuts us the high protein and fats in them even without roasting. Fats and to some degree proteins, are energy dense. As your body temperature regulation uses energy to create heat, shivering for example but also before that, then they make good food to provide the energy long term while sleeping. I'm guessing carbs are less important and perhaps could trigger an insulin response I suppose.

I think you might be talking about specific dynamic action:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_dynamic_action

and I should have mentioned that when I responded previously.

But it isn't only that effect that produces heat.

Jonathan

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 24 Dec 2020, 12:02am

NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 24 Dec 2020, 12:54am

Hi,
In the end to end cycle race off road self sufficient carry all food. dry food was used and rehydrated en route.
Need hot water.

https://www.nutritionadvance.com/high-c ... ng-weight/

Scott's team was undereating by 50%.

On one of my endurance 24 hr rides I ate over 250 grams of fat amongst other things.

But a balanced diet is probably better that fad stuff (one energy type).

On one 12 hr ride I found out that I needed to eat after about 30 minutes on the bike to maintain energy levels, previously I waited 60 mins.
I was eating on the bike without stopping for about 4hrs 15 min, 75 miles but then had to stop and eat fast for ten minutes to carry on, at 100 miles in a little over six hours, wasn't as hungry and energy levels were up again.
I found that if I ate well on the bike then my energy and performance was same at 12 hrs as when I started.
Its hard to meter food if you dont stop and eat, the pro's meter carb loaded drinks and plan how much (team) they will need and when in the race.
After 12 hrs I normally find my appetite's disappeared, if you then don't force feed till the point of regurgitating later, energy drops off again.
Probably easier to stop every 2.5 - 3 hrs and feed up if you are planning to move fast or over tough terrain.
Most fall asleep after 20 hrs awake but you can extend this if you have a 20 minute power nap after 12 hrs or so.
I once took 5 kgs of packed lunches on a week end tour and had to eat to keep going every 2.5 - 3 hrs. not much left on first day, 35 kgs and average 7 mph for 120 miles.

High power normally means high H Rate............also at a high cadence, normally above 80% of my max HR I can only maintain for about 3 hrs max without food.
Lower power means that if you lower your cadence say from 85-90 to 70-65 you will be more fat relient.
That's why if you walk long distances with a sack on back you can maintain motion with little food intake, and your body eats itself.
Technically its thought possible to maintain aerobic exercise indefinitely if you maintain enough energy consumption, 70 % of max HR.
On one day ride I did 16 - 18 hours in the saddle at 73% of max HR.

If you have no support then it gets rather hard to maintain constant motion, I think ultra cyclist consume much carb loaded fluid, easy to consume.
Just try eating and riding without stopping except for water.
Other than a support crew you will probably have to carry solid food, carbs are hard to get down as solid especially when you are riding and breathing hard.

Best advice is bread stuffed with fat and protein, then add some nuts jelly beans rice cakes with peanut butter, flap jacks and anything else that takes your fancie, pastries etc.
This is just my experience.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

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Sweep
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby Sweep » 24 Dec 2020, 7:34am

pjclinch wrote:
When I finally got round to riding a century I took a box of flapjacks made to a recipe suggestion passed on by Emma Pooley (who obviously knows a thing or two about serious bike riding, but it turns out also about baking). Rather than the sugar and butter of the standard recipe, which is very nice but not brilliantly balanced for athletic nutrition, she suggested a mix of condensed milk and shredded apple as the binder for the oats. Add a load of raisins and that turned out to be a really good recipe where I could happily dip in to the supply at every pause, get some benefit and not end up hating it.

Pete.

Interesting on the shredded apple.i have my own recipe (promised to some folks on here I think when I can find it) which I could maybe add it to, but am wary of what might happen when the snack is stored - it can take weeks for me to eat through one of my big batches - how long do you think the apple will keep in the snack bars? Any funny reactions?
Sweep

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pjclinch
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby pjclinch » 24 Dec 2020, 7:45am

To be honest, the concept of a tray of flapjacks lasting longer than a few days is not one I have any experience with...
But over a few days there weren't any problems.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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Sweep
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby Sweep » 24 Dec 2020, 7:47am

LittleGreyCat wrote:My high fat low carbohydrate treat is chocolate truffles.

300 ml double cream
300 grams dark chocolate
50 grams butter

Just heat the cream until almost simmering, turn off the heat, add the butter then slowly add the chocolate stirring gently.

As it cools you can form it into balls or pour it into a silicone mould (ice cube moulds work).

This is very high fat and also very tasty (to me).
Main problem is the tendency to melt in warm weather.

Could you use an equal weight of cocoa powder instead of the chocolate? Or is there something else in the chocolate needed for the recipe to work?

Cocoa powder is a mild laxative though.
Sweep

reohn2
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby reohn2 » 24 Dec 2020, 9:05am

Mrs R2's rocket fuel cereal bars:-

1x397g can of condensed milk
250g rolled oats(not instant)
75g dried apricots
100g dried cranberries
100g mixed seeds(pumpkin,sunflower,sesame
50g dried prunes
100g natural unsalted peanuts or cashews

Preheat the oven 130C
Oil a baking tin or line it with greasproof paper
Warm the condensed milk in a large pan
Meanwhile mix all the other ingedients,then add the condensed milk,using a spatula fold and further mix.
Spread the mix into the tin pressing down evenly with the spatula or your hands.
Bake for an hour,remove from the oven and leave for no longer than 15minutes(important otherwise you'll struggle to cut it up) before cutting into squares.It should make about 16 chunky bars about 20mm thick
-----------------------------------------------------------

Jdsk
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby Jdsk » 24 Dec 2020, 9:12am

Sweep wrote:
LittleGreyCat wrote:My high fat low carbohydrate treat is chocolate truffles.

300 ml double cream
300 grams dark chocolate
50 grams butter

Just heat the cream until almost simmering, turn off the heat, add the butter then slowly add the chocolate stirring gently.

As it cools you can form it into balls or pour it into a silicone mould (ice cube moulds work).

This is very high fat and also very tasty (to me).
Main problem is the tendency to melt in warm weather.

Could you use an equal weight of cocoa powder instead of the chocolate? Or is there something else in the chocolate needed for the recipe to work?

There's much less fat in cocoa powder than in chocolate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_solids
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_chocolate

Jonathan

PH
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby PH » 24 Dec 2020, 6:45pm

Today's ride was fuelled by Christmas cake and a chunk of Wensleydale, pretty much perfect. My next ride, probably tomorrow, will include some buttered Soreen seasonal spiced maltloaf. After that, it'll be back to the usual wholemeal bread, jam and/or peanut butter. All these are supplemented with a banana.
Unless you're doing some extreme endurance event or racing, does it matter? Does it even matter if you are? I was watching a video of the Tour Divide Race a few days ago, they eat junk, loads of it, chocolate bars, cake, burgers, pizza, bar bags full of cold fries...

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Sweep
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby Sweep » 25 Dec 2020, 8:29am

Jdsk wrote:There's much less fat in cocoa powder than in chocolate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_solids
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_chocolate

Jonathan

Thanks for the info.
If, non cycling, I feel like a cocoa fix, I have taken to mixing cocoa powder with stuff for a pure jolt, avoiding the extra stuff/carrier that goes into chocolate bars.
Sweep

LittleGreyCat
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby LittleGreyCat » 25 Dec 2020, 3:17pm

Sweep wrote:
Jdsk wrote:There's much less fat in cocoa powder than in chocolate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_solids
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_chocolate

Jonathan

Thanks for the info.
If, non cycling, I feel like a cocoa fix, I have taken to mixing cocoa powder with stuff for a pure jolt, avoiding the extra stuff/carrier that goes into chocolate bars.


Yes, the chocolate part is intended to supply mainly cocoa butter.
70% or upwards if possible.
The higher the cocoa content the less the sugar content.

I get my energy from fats and protein when eating sensibly so most of the carbohydrate heavy offerings taste really good but are not for me, unfortunately. :-(

nirakaro
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby nirakaro » 26 Dec 2020, 4:27pm

PH wrote:Unless you're doing some extreme endurance event or racing, does it matter? Does it even matter if you are?

Well, certainly, it doesn't matter. But this whole forum is built around an arguably frivolous leisure activity, none of which really matters.
When I go for a longish ride (whether that means 20 miles, or 2,000), I like to carry appealing and nutritious food with me; and I like, where it's practicable, to keep the weight I'm lugging around to a minimum. Put those two aims together, and they generate this, arguably interesting, enquiry. But of course none of it actually matters.

Phileas
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby Phileas » 26 Dec 2020, 6:48pm

Someone told me once that the food with highest energy/weight ratio is Quavers. :lol:

Pebble
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Re: Food with maximum energy for minimum weight

Postby Pebble » 26 Dec 2020, 6:57pm

should you purposefully put on weight before a long tour (esp if you are going somewhere food won't be available) I'm thinking our very own spare tyre could be a very good and efficient way of taking supplies along

3500 cals per pound of body fat could give you 100 mile on flattish terrain. an extra stone = best part of 1500 mile.