EU Vaccine Passport

[willem jongman]

I agree as well, but at the same time I believe the rapid increase in vaccination will be the game changer. We had a big item on Dutch tv yesterday with reports from a string of EU countries. Clearly plans are being made to allow travel, but only once it is safe, and therefore only for those who have been vaccinated properly, i.e. from two weeks after the second dose. A digital certificate of one kind or another will be required.

[Psamathe]

Depends on the UK. Obviously infection rates in many EU countries are still too high, but they will soon drop to current UK levels and as in the UK will decline even futher, given the rapid rate of vaccination. After that, it will be a matter of system implementation with willing countries.

Unfortunately, when the European levels drop, by that time the UK could be facing the 4th wave

My personal (pessimistic or realist) view is that the UK is now launching into an "irreversible unlocking" and given that India isn't the only country with massive levels of virus, lots of places developing new variants that evade immunity so before too much longer a new variant will arrive and it will find the UK population all nicely crowded together in football stadia, pubs, Primarks, etc. and we can all guess where that goes with a PM with a track record of dither & delay who'd rather "bodies pile high" than lockdown.

I hope I'm wrong.

Ian

[willem jongman]

Yes it is about time we start exporting vaccines to India, Africa and elsewehere. The EU has just ordered almost 2 billion doses from Biontech Pfizer, in part to donote to poor countries. The snag is of course that precisely this vaccine is so hard to distribute.
Of course, within Europe it will be Germany that takes the lead, and it is very cautious, even though German infection levels are admirably low already. Yes, for those vaccinated some restrictions will be lifted, but as the German minister said yesterday, not too many, and for the time being no bars and restaurants.

[Psamathe]

Problems highlighted with UK's lack of IT capability when it comes to such issues

NHS Covid jab booking site leaks people’s vaccine status
NHS Digital is revising its process for booking Covid vaccinations in England after the discovery of a “seriously shocking failure” that leaked medical data from the site.

The website lets users make appointments using their NHS number or, if they do not have it to hand, some basic identity information. But in the process, users’ vaccination status is disclosed, allowing anyone who possesses basic personal details of a friend, colleague or stranger to find out what should be confidential medical information.

Employers would therefore, in theory, be able to trivially find out which of their staff had been vaccinated, for instance, while others may feel under pressure not to get the vaccine for fear of criticism from anti-vaccination friends or colleagues.

If they can't get the basics right what hope for something that can be checked internationally, etc.

Ian

[al_yrpal]

The NHS has a track record of awful IT software. My Mrs worked introducing and implimenting NHS software for many years. It doesnt surprise me in the least. Fujitsu.....?

Al

[Oldjohnw]

The NHS has a track record of awful IT software. My Mrs worked introducing and implimenting NHS software for many years. It doesnt surprise me in the least. Fujitsu.....?

Al

We are in the process of moving house to a completely different area. As both Mrs Ojw and I both have ongoing health problems/treatments we are concerned to have a seamless transfer of records. It is proving very difficult, if not impossible. The two areas use different IT systems which don’t talk to each other. So the best we can do is get our current GP to print off a case summary for us to physically take then the files (paper files) will be sent on six months later. No electronic transfer will take place at all.

In addition, we will have to travel back to Newcastle for her to have a basal cell carcinoma removed or join a new waiting list in Warwickshire or pay several thousand pounds for private surgery. But the private hospital also has a similar waiting list because of a backlog of both their own patients or patients sent by the NHS.

[Jdsk]

We are in the process of moving house to a completely different area. As both Mrs Ojw and I both have ongoing health problems/treatments we are concerned to have a seamless transfer of records. It is proving very difficult, if not impossible. The two areas use different IT systems which don’t talk to each other. So the best we can do is get our current GP to print off a case summary for us to physically take then the files (paper files) will be sent on six months later. No electronic transfer will take place at all.

If that's about GP records and both practices are in England it shouldn't be the case: record transfer has been routine for some years. If you would like me to help sort this out please send me a Private Message.

If it's about hospital records then that is often impossible.

Jonathan

[Oldjohnw]

We are in the process of moving house to a completely different area. As both Mrs Ojw and I both have ongoing health problems/treatments we are concerned to have a seamless transfer of records. It is proving very difficult, if not impossible. The two areas use different IT systems which don’t talk to each other. So the best we can do is get our current GP to print off a case summary for us to physically take then the files (paper files) will be sent on six months later. No electronic transfer will take place at all.

If that's about GP records and both practices are in England it shouldn't be the case: record transfer has been routine for some years. If you would like me to help sort this out please send me a Private Message.

If it's about hospital records then that is often impossible.

Jonathan

GP records. The same story from both our current and future GP. I will send you a copy of the email I received from my GP. Thanks for the offer.

[simonhill]

My personal (pessimistic or realist) view is that the UK is now launching into an "irreversible unlocking" and given that India isn't the only country with massive levels of virus, lots of places developing new variants that evade immunity so before too much longer a new variant will arrive and it will find the UK population all nicely crowded together in football stadia, pubs, Primarks, etc. and we can all guess where that goes with a PM with a track record of dither & delay who'd rather "bodies pile high" than lockdown.

I hope I'm wrong.

Ian

I take your point Ian, but what is the solution? Do we stay locked or semi locked till everybody on the planet is clear. I have friends who are saying - I have had the jab, I want to get some benefit from it. I suspect they are not alone. I have other friends who went into self imposed isolation (not medically required) and now are very reluctant to come out. I fear we are breeding a sub race of hermits and troglodytes.

[Psamathe]

My personal (pessimistic or realist) view is that the UK is now launching into an "irreversible unlocking" and given that India isn't the only country with massive levels of virus, lots of places developing new variants that evade immunity so before too much longer a new variant will arrive and it will find the UK population all nicely crowded together in football stadia, pubs, Primarks, etc. and we can all guess where that goes with a PM with a track record of dither & delay who'd rather "bodies pile high" than lockdown.

I hope I'm wrong.

Ian

I take your point Ian, but what is the solution? Do we stay locked or semi locked till everybody on the planet is clear. I have friends who are saying - I have had the jab, I want to get some benefit from it. I suspect they are not alone. I have other friends who went into self imposed isolation (not medically required) and now are very reluctant to come out. I fear we are breeding a sub race of hermits and troglodytes.

(Personal opinion, no claims of "expertise") I think the solution is "manage expectations". Rather than forever announcing "one-way" and "irreversible" coming out of lockdown and return to normal life and pre-announcements about "looking good for summer holidays", etc. rather play things more cautiously e.g. "we can stop having to do <x> and allow doing <y> but things can change quickly so these are dependent of everybody keeping doing <z> and only if the improvement continues could we consider further relaxation ...".

I think Johnson has in effect announced we are ploughing ahead with relaxations and never going back to lockdown and even if he then adds "subject to the data" people are only hearing that they are going to Spanish beaches this summer. He has raised the expectations of the pubic as well as his Parties Covid Denial Group (or whatever they call themselves these days). And given those expectations if/when a nasty variant arrives it will mean more dithering and delays and inaction before things get so bad ...

Ian

[ossie]

I take your point Ian, but what is the solution? Do we stay locked or semi locked till everybody on the planet is clear. I have friends who are saying - I have had the jab, I want to get some benefit from it. I suspect they are not alone. I have other friends who went into self imposed isolation (not medically required) and now are very reluctant to come out. I fear we are breeding a sub race of hermits and troglodytes.

I fear some on here have become exactly that ! Lots of negativity (caution accepted), instead we should be looking forward to the opportunity to travel. The country has bust a gut to vaccinate its citizens, there are hundreds of thousands of jobs reliant on oversees tourism hanging by a thread or in my daughters case completely gone.

I disagree with the implication in previous posts that people have an expectation they are going to Spanish beaches, get on any travel forum and the majority simply don't want to if they haven't been vaccinated, its 'Amber' or the cost of tests are prohibitive. I guess many of us touring cyclists would feel the same.

[willem jongman]

I guess it will depend on where you want to go and what the rules will be for that. Once you have been vaccinated visits to other countries where the vast majority of the population are also vaccinated should be perfectly safe. The chance to get infected will be small, and the chance that you will be seriously ill will be even smaller. To guarantee all that we will need vaccine passports, to reasure others that we are no threat, and to be sure that others that we may meet are similarly harmless. The EU Green certificate is said to be operational in June, and by July the vast majority of the EU and UK populations will be vaccinated, and many already for a second time. Just to give an example, many of my Italian colleagues in their fourties and fifties have already been vaccinated. Whether we will be able to prove that to each other will depend on compatible certificates.
On the other hand, I think it will be unwise to travel to countries like Brazil or India for quite some time, sadly.

[Psamathe]

......
On the other hand, I think it will be unwise to travel to countries like Brazil or India for quite some time, sadly.

Apart from levels of infection, the question of variants is also significant. In the UK we've already got the "Indian variant" competing against our own "Kent variant".

Ian

[mjr]

The country has bust a gut to vaccinate its citizens,

Specifically, bust Indian guts. This short-sighted parochial policy chicken may yet come home to roost.

[willem jongman]

[/quote]
Apart from levels of infection, the question of variants is also significant. In the UK we've already got the "Indian variant" competing against our own "Kent variant".
[/quote]

It has also been spotted in the EU, but thus far only sporadically. To me, this is all the more reason to limit travel to those vaccinated. The good news that I keep hearing is that thus far at least the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine is effective against all currently emerging mutations, and can also be adapted very easily. This is the most commonly used vaccine in the EU, and I can only hope this will also apply to the Astra Zeneca vaccine that I received.