EU Vaccine Passport

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mjr
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by mjr »

Most vaccine from EU is exported!
How many denied exports: NULL
The EU is what we call here a toothless tiger.
And yet, when they did finally block an export, some people switched from calling them "toothless" to whining that the EU was being anticompetitive or protectionist and starting a trade war over vital medicines during a health crisis. They cannot win, can they? Or in other words: what would you want them to do now?
This bad crises management in Germany becomes a real problem for the government parties, especially for the CDU (Merkel party).
Last weekend we had elections in two states, and CDU was the big looser!
In addition there are some bribe affairs in CDU and CSU (bavaria), concerning
aquisition of protection masks.
In autumn we will have elections for whole Germany, and I fear that we can get
an instable situation.
I doubt it was the crisis management because the CDU's current coalition partner, the SPD, held their seats in both Rheinland-Pfalz and Baden-Württemberg.

Actually, I disagree with the above assessment: in BW the CDU did not lose any seats: they lost 3% of the votes, but the big loser was the far-right AfD (Alternative for Germany) who lost 5½% and 6 seats. In RP, the CDU lost 4 seats, but AfD lost 5 seats and more votes than CDU too.

The biggest winners in RP were the Free Voters, a centrist localist group, winning 6 seats and entering the state parliament for the first time. The Greens gained 4 seats in RP and 11 in BW - they could be said to be big winners in general and they are broadly supportive of the covid measures, as well as pushing hard for an "ecological modernity" recovery plan also intended to reduce wealth inequality, as they point out that the poor have suffered more from covid.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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willem jongman
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by willem jongman »

In the meantime, in a recent long document for the Dutch parliament I read that technical preparations for a vaccination/test result app are progressing well and that the app should be technically functional in June. It will allow you to access your data from the national vaccination register. This does not mean it will also be operational sometime in June, because clearly it would be discriminatory if people will not yet have had a chance to be vaccinated. For the Netherlands, the moment everyone who wants to should have had a first jab is sometime early in July. What is unclear is whether the system expects the second jab to have been given as well, and whether there will be a waiting period built in to cover the period when the vaccine is not yet effective.
Last edited by willem jongman on 15 Apr 2021, 3:26pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oldjohnw
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by Oldjohnw »

I see that Denmark has banned the AZ vaccine. Does that mean it will not acknowledge those who have received it?
John
Psamathe
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by Psamathe »

Oldjohnw wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 1:05pm I see that Denmark has banned the AZ vaccine. Does that mean it will not acknowledge those who have received it?
I understood they stopped using it because of "rare side-effects" not because it does not work. i.e. they accept it works so those who have received it will still have been vaccinated. (They'd still be using it were it not for the rare side-effects"). So no reason they would not recognise people who received it as having been vaccinated.

Ian
willem jongman
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by willem jongman »

True. The Danes also stopped it because they have things under control and have enough other vaccines. Pfizer/Biontech keep beating their own supply records. The EU has just been told to expect another 50 million additional doses over the next two months or so. After that, the Biontech gates will really open anyway.
Oldjohnw
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by Oldjohnw »

Psamathe wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 1:10pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 1:05pm I see that Denmark has banned the AZ vaccine. Does that mean it will not acknowledge those who have received it?
I understood they stopped using it because of "rare side-effects" not because it does not work. i.e. they accept it works so those who have received it will still have been vaccinated. (They'd still be using it were it not for the rare side-effects"). So no reason they would not recognise people who received it as having been vaccinated.

Ian
Thanks. Obvious - silly me!
John
Psamathe
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by Psamathe »

Given the concerns some/many have about discrimination and coercion around use of vaccine passports, easy solution, don't introdce a vaccine passport but instead introduce a test certificate/record - a document listing your Covid test history showing you've have a "clear" test in the last <x> days. And a section allowing people who've been vaccinated to be exempt from testing.

Ian
ClappedOut
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by ClappedOut »

Psamathe wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 11:02am Given the concerns some/many have about discrimination and coercion around use of vaccine passports, easy solution, don't introdce a vaccine passport but instead introduce a test certificate/record - a document listing your Covid test history showing you've have a "clear" test in the last <x> days. And a section allowing people who've been vaccinated to be exempt from testing.

Ian
Why would you be exempt as you can still carry, pass on and have lesser symptoms vaccined and those of us who seem to not be having it as prior adverse reactions will become second class
willem jongman
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by willem jongman »

Current research increasingly shows that vaccination will prevent you largely or almost completely from spreading the virus. I think the question then is from when after vaccination.
Psamathe
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by Psamathe »

ClappedOut wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 11:10am
Psamathe wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 11:02am Given the concerns some/many have about discrimination and coercion around use of vaccine passports, easy solution, don't introdce a vaccine passport but instead introduce a test certificate/record - a document listing your Covid test history showing you've have a "clear" test in the last <x> days. And a section allowing people who've been vaccinated to be exempt from testing.

Ian
Why would you be exempt as you can still carry, pass on and have lesser symptoms vaccined and those of us who seem to not be having it as prior adverse reactions will become second class
Same applies after you've been tested. Lateral flow test is little more than 50% reliable under non-medical conditions (reliable in that context is is will not detect up to 50% of infected people).
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/15/what-is-lateral-flow-covid-test-how-accurate wrote:while the false negative rate could be as high as 50%.
And the reliable PCR test has longer turnaround times meaning you could have caught Covid after taking your sample that was tested.

Bottom line is that if politicians/scientists consider a Vaccine Passport adequate to open up society (football matches, etc.) then a test record with exemption provides exactly the same protections (it's the same thing using different words).

Ian
ClappedOut
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by ClappedOut »

I don't go with Media and Government Hype, who said it will be over by Christmas :lol:
willem jongman
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by willem jongman »

Just had my first jab. Looking forward to the second one and some touring in July.
willem jongman
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by willem jongman »

For those here who have argued that testing is a viable alternative, it is not only far less reliable than vaccination, but it is also very expensive if done on a large scale, and repeatedly. It was a useful idea in the Autumn when we had no alternatives, but now we have vaccines, and in increasingly large volume, in the UK, but also in the EU. Within two or three weeks about half the Dutch population will have had a first jab, and hence be fairly well protected. The planning is for everyone who wants to to have had that first jab by early July, and many (half?) also a second one. From what I read, Germany and Italy are on a similar schedule, and maybe France.
What will remain, is the group of people who hesitate about vaccination. The Vaccine Passport will make vaccination a lot more attractive for them. I could have my jab last Saturday ahead of schedule because on the one hand some people had indeed decided to stay away, and on the other hand because our GP managed to get 11 shots out of one bottle instead of the nominal 10. He did not want to waste anything, so he had a reserve list. Nearly all our neighbours have also just had their first jabs, and I must say it feels really liberating, even though I know that I will not be protected for a few more weeks.
Psamathe
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by Psamathe »

willem jongman wrote: 19 Apr 2021, 11:34am For those here who have argued that testing is a viable alternative, it is not only far less reliable than vaccination, but it is also very expensive if done on a large scale, and repeatedly. It was a useful idea in the Autumn when we had no alternatives, but now we have vaccines,....
Some time back there was a radio interview with on of the large London theatre managers (Radio 4 Today program) and they were saying that even with reduced audience numbers (distancing), testing on entry is impossible - you can't test that many people even if they are waiting around outside for only 15 minute tests. But have a vaccination certificate meaning that the numbers without certificates needing testing makes the testing practical (far far fewer as most have certificates).

But that is ignoring the unreliability issues with the lateral flow tests (failing to detect infection).

Ian
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mjr
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Re: EU Vaccine Passport

Post by mjr »

ClappedOut wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 11:26am I don't go with Media and Government Hype, who said it will be over by Christmas :lol:
Let us not forget those MPs and media pundits who screamed that talk of 200 deaths a day or 20'000-80'000 dead overall was defeatist scaremongering :(
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit ... tty-134182
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/s ... g-18974560

Many of these are also arguing against vaccination level as an unlocking requirement.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
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