EU Vaccine Passport

[willem jongman]

The UK can rightly be proud about the quality of its academic research. As a consequence it has greatly benefitted from competitive EU research grants. Boris Johnson promised to compensate for the loss of those. Well, he did not keep his promise: major research cuts have just been announced. This is exactly what my UK friends in research feared.

[al_yrpal]

I will not be provoked into a discussion on vaccine procurement. For now the crucial metric is mortality rates: UK sadly about twice as high as Germany or the Netherlands.

Thats very convenient for you its the one thing the EU Commission tried to take charge of and failed spectacularly! Thank goodness they didnt control anything else!

I put the UKs high mortality rates down to a number of factors which include slow government action but lots of other things - being more international, large ethnic minorities, high levels of obesity and generally much less discipline amongst working people and the young in not observing lockdown practices as evidenced by recent TV pictures of massive crowds flagrantly breaking the rules.

I wont be going anywhere near the European mainland any time soon..talking to friends yesterday that run a charity in Bulgaria all 400 hospitals are full, its tragic.

Hungary, which often acts more like a nation state than compliant rule taking EU member is leading the EU in the rate of vaccination.

Al

[willem jongman]

As serious UK newspapers have pointed out, the UK could have done what it did even when inside the EU.

[KTHSullivan]

young in not observing lockdown practices as evidenced by recent TV pictures of massive crowds flagrantly breaking the rules.

Tend to agree there Al, perhaps if the authorities had arrested a couple of dozen of the idiots and landed them with a 10k fine each it would at least pay for the clean up.

[willem jongman]

Of course there were many idiots, but were there more of them in the UK? And why would that be? And does the timeline of this behaviour match tbe timeline of peaks in infections?

[al_yrpal]

As serious UK newspapers have pointed out, the UK could have done what it did even when inside the EU.

Granted Willem, I am just pointing out that things arent all EU good, UK government bad. This isnt Animal Farm...

As for idiots I believe we have many more irresponsible folk who ignore rules more than the Germans in particular. And, our benefit levels are poor encouraging the low paid to go to work when they are ill with the virus.

Al

[mjr]

And as I said, the argument for the EU was not just economic, but also to save us from the excesses of nationalist madness.

"the excesses of nationalist madness" is pretty much an accurate description of the current process for exporting goods from Brexit UK. The UK's red tape is 10x worse than any EU red tape used to be. Even exports to non-EU countries are being maimed by the new UK red tape, requiring a load of extra things like EORI numbers and unit weights to be added to invoices for exported goods. It seems like either the UK's trade deal negotiators completely screwed up even on goods exports (as opposed to services which they didn't even try to include) or UK Customs are goldplating the requirements. And there's no point talking to MPs about it because they seem either clueless or devotees of the Brexit cult, as this cheesemaker found: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ort-advice

I hope this government lives to regret that because blessed be the cheesemakers!

[mjr]

As serious UK newspapers have pointed out, the UK could have done what it did even when inside the EU.

And it did it while acting as if an EU member, during the transition period!

And it may yet regret it, seeing as no-one is safe until everyone is safe. Refusing to help and leaving a variant breeding ground just across the sea is a big risk to have taken.

I hear that the EU immunity passport will also be validated by a recent negative test or fairly recent infection, as well as vaccination. Switzerland also seem to be making their compatible with the EU's. I wonder if the UK's one will do either.

[willem jongman]

removed triple posting

[willem jongman]

Yes the passport will be based on vaccination, immunity from fairly recent infection or a recent negative test. All of these will require validation to compatible standards and application to a joint document/app format. So unless the UK gets its act together very quickly and allows its experts to collaborate with EU experts, it will simply have to accept EU rules.

[RickH]

The UK's red tape is 10x worse than any EU red tape used to be...

But at least it now proper British Red Tape!

[thirdcrank]

More like bias binding

https://www.fabricland.co.uk/product/je ... 20mm-wide/

[willem jongman]

If I understand current UK discussions correctly it will be the UK govenment that will keepnyou away from Europe. I admit there us a good argument in favour of travel restrictions but I fail to see how that applies to those who have been vaccinated.

[st599_uk]

If I understand current UK discussions correctly it will be the UK govenment that will keepnyou away from Europe. I admit there us a good argument in favour of travel restrictions but I fail to see how that applies to those who have been vaccinated.

The issue is more, is it fair to penalise younger people, who've given up a lot for a virus that statistically affects them?

[Psamathe]

If I understand current UK discussions correctly it will be the UK govenment that will keepnyou away from Europe. I admit there us a good argument in favour of travel restrictions but I fail to see how that applies to those who have been vaccinated.

The issue is more, is it fair to penalise younger people, who've given up a lot for a virus that statistically affects them?

I can see the "age discrimination" aspect but feel that if somebody else had been vaccinated before me (for whatever reason) then it would be churlish of me to say "unfair, stop them doing something" when it's safe for them but not yet safe for me. Why stop us both - I gain nothing from them being stopped and they lose a lot.

Also, it does not have to be a "no passport, no entry" scheme. As the CEO (or senior management) of one large London theatre said on the radio a few weeks ago, for them testing for audience entry is impractical (using the fast test things) - too many people to organise somewhere then wait somehwere then tie up results to person ... But is most has passports and you are only testing the few who don't have passports it all becomes a lot more practical

So just phrase the rules where either a vaccine passport or an "on entry test". The vaccine passport would be quicker and easier and will keep the numbers needing testing down enough to be practical (e.g. to go watch a live football match). That way it's not discriminatory.

Ian