Drive Belt vs Chain, Rohloff Hub vs Derailler, and other questions.

[BikeBuddha]

I hope we can all help him in his determination to achieve his dream - even Sweep has come up with an app for a brothel - how good is that? Depending on where Bike Buddha is in the world, he may have enough money left over for a couple of weeks in a brothel, let alone a couple on nights.

Doodah

Doodah, I am grateful for your offer of borrowing a bike. And yes, I might just take you up on it if able. I don't like driving, so would have to bus/train it down....

The OBW Exhibition has a ten-week waiting list. ITs expensive, and would probably preclude visiting brothels on route. Though your kind consideration in this area is noted... it must get awful lonely on the open road. However, I will definitely pack some wellies. Do they also work on Llamas?

[simonhill]

Don't worry, if staying in cheap hotels in many parts of the world you will find they double up as 'short stay' places. I've stayed in more than I care to remember. Also, they can often make the best stories for your blog or book.

You ask about the difference between a new £3,000 bike and a secondhand £1500 one - it's probably about 6 months cycling, possibly less.

[Bonefishblues]

You ask about the difference between a new £3,000 bike and a secondhand £1500 one - it's probably about 6 months cycling, possibly less.

Good point well made

[pq]

CCS rims?
I have them on my Thorn Raven Tour, with Rohloff.
Hate 'em. Awful in the wet. And yes, I've tried all the different pads; blue pink salmon etc.
And I believe Thorn no longer use them.
In fact, are they still made?

I'm genuinely interested your own opinion.
Always something to learn here.

I don't really have much to say - the braking is fine using swisstop blue pads. Maybe that's becasue I changed the rims at about the same time as I switched from cantis to Vs. Maybe if you came from discs you might think differently.

I have no idea whether they're still made or not, but I think SJS stock them still. But really, most people who don't want to wear their rims out go for discs these days so I can see that the demand for CSS rims would be miniscule now.

[doodah]

Hmm, BikeBuddha, all of us commenting here have the privilege of having the helicopter / spectators view of the game and therefore can see more of it at any given time. You are at the coal face and need to step back and truly assess what you are doing - not a criticism, just a nudge. I will try and break down your replies in logical order if i can

What are the lessons that the OP should focus on during the intervening years?

1 Does he actually like cycle touring?
Not a clue. Never done it.
Reply - £3500+ is an expensive way to find out that you do not like cycling long distance and being solo.

2 What kind of roads? Mostly tarmac or off road?
I'd like some off road capacity.
Then it has to be a versatile bike with wheels and tyres to match

3 How much luggage?
Clothe, tent, cooking gear..a mobile phone and a kindle
Although the mobile phone and kindle can be considered 'important' items, they are inconsequential under the term 'luggage'.Are they essential? - depends how free from everyday life one wishes to be, IMO

4 Frame style, aluminium vs steel?
Everyone says steel...
Ah, you have the starting point I alluded to upthread.

5 Geometry
Clueless here
A respectable bike builder will help you here. Did I mention SJS Cycles?

6 Wheel/tyre size
Heard 26 " wheels are the strongest...
Yes they would be my preference using Sapim spokes and brass nipples unless advised differently by the wheelbuilder. I would also do the research on the chatter that these wheels are being discontinued. Ahem, SJS Cycles make allowance for this in their new Nomad frames. I'm not on commission here, folks. Even so, for that change to filter down to remote places will, I believe, take a long time

7 Drop bar or straight
STraight
People will argue that drop bars offer more hand positions. When I used them, my favourite position was on the hoods, for sure. I rarely went down into the drop position, even going down hill. Straight bars with bar ends do offer different positions and also give a more relaxed upright riding style that the touring cyclist wants - even going downhill and taking in the views. I cannot comment on butterfly bars but have read that they flex and don't give 100% stability - I don't know from experience.

8 Lights and hub generator
This is probably a good idea?
Yes, I would agree even if only for an emergency back up for the phone.

9 Prefered style of pedals
Not a clue
Have a gawp at these https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... -T421.html. Flat sided or clipless and also with reflectors - which are a requirement by law, unless I am wrong?


Not a clue what I am doing. Have real difficulty with decision making, but just acting on instinct, really. Need an alternative way of living.
Yes, I think we have all gathered by now that you haven't a clue - that's why everyone is here to help you. Please do not take that comment the wrong way. There is no no need to act on instinct - that is primordial and you hang on to that when you need it most eg. a fork in the road, is it safe to camp here here?, is this person I am talking to trustworthy? Always follow your gut instinct and it will usually take you to safety. You wrote further down thread that you are impatient, impulsive, and indecisive at the same time . No need to be. Apply logic, common sense, rationale and practicality and sift through the comments made on this thread. I am certain that you will get the bike you want.

I read Tom Allen's book and he recommends, and helped design, the Oxford Bike Works Expedition model.
I also read Tom Allen's book, I also visited Oxford Bike Works. I bought a Thorn Raven!!

I also test rode a bike for an hour, unladen. It road well and I enjoyed it.

I suspect that a RTW tour will last longer than an hour - unladen

[quote="BikeBuddha"]
Everything is a bit up in the air. I had the idea two years ago, but because of the difficulty of choosing a bike, I didn't buy a bike and tour. I've wwoofed before, though, in Canada for over a year. I was a goat herder in the Yukon, as part of it. In truth, I no next to nothing about bikes, and looked at the OBW expedition after reading Tom Allen's book. After test riding one briefly (an hour), I thought that it would do.

Hmm, Isle of Skye = sheep, Yukon = goats, South America = llamas....definitely wellies for you laddie, definitely. I genuinely do not understand 'wwoofed / wwoofing'. Is that Scottish speak for dogging - in which case I would advocate buying a tandem

BikeBuddha, you ain't going anywhere like a RTW this year, so take the heat and haste out of your compulsion to buy now. Truly, it is difficult for you logistically to try before you buy, ergo you must research everything commented on here and make a journey to a reputable bike builder.

This is just the start - wait until you ask for advice on panniers, tents, cooking equipment etc. Is there a sanatorium on Skye perchance?

Doodah

[simonhill]

W..orking
O..n
O..rganic
F..arms

It's a bit like the YHA with field duties instead of kitchen ones.

[doodah]

W..orking
O..n
O..rganic
F..arms

It's a bit like the YHA with field duties instead of kitchen ones.

Ah, thank you for that - never heard that one before. Well, you live and learn. Sounds a good way to supplement a tour and interact with people.

Thanks.

[BikeBuddha]

I read Tom Allen's book and he recommends, and helped design, the Oxford Bike Works Expedition model.
I also read Tom Allen's book, I also visited Oxford Bike Works. I bought a Thorn Raven!!

So why buy a Thorn Raven over an OBW? Why not a Thorn Nomad? And what brand of wellies do you recommend?

[markjohnobrien]

Don't worry, if staying in cheap hotels in many parts of the world you will find they double up as 'short stay' places. I've stayed in more than I care to remember. Also, they can often make the best stories for your blog or book.

You ask about the difference between a new £3,000 bike and a secondhand £1500 one - it's probably about 6 months cycling, possibly less.

Funny - and very true.

[markjohnobrien]

CCS rims?
I have them on my Thorn Raven Tour, with Rohloff.
Hate 'em. Awful in the wet. And yes, I've tried all the different pads; blue pink salmon etc.
And I believe Thorn no longer use them.
In fact, are they still made?

I'm genuinely interested your own opinion.
Always something to learn here.

I don't really have much to say - the braking is fine using swisstop blue pads. Maybe that's becasue I changed the rims at about the same time as I switched from cantis to Vs. Maybe if you came from discs you might think differently.

I have no idea whether they're still made or not, but I think SJS stock them still. But really, most people who don't want to wear their rims out go for discs these days so I can see that the demand for CSS rims would be miniscule now.

I have a CSS rim on the rear of one of my bikes: absolutely fine, no problems, no problems in wet. I guess everyone’s experience is different.

[doodah]

I read Tom Allen's book and he recommends, and helped design, the Oxford Bike Works Expedition model.
I also read Tom Allen's book, I also visited Oxford Bike Works. I bought a Thorn Raven!!

So why buy a Thorn Raven over an OBW? Why not a Thorn Nomad? And what brand of wellies do you recommend?

When I visited OBW he think he had only been in operation maybe 6 months - 1 year. I do not know for certain. What I did know was his MO didn't feel right to me. I asked myself 'How experienced is he? What will his after sales be like? How good will he be in getting me out a fix abroad?' I wasn't inspired with confidence to make a purchase. Things will obviously gave changed by now and good luck to him.
I immediately left there and went to SJS Cycles in Somerset - being the same day, mind you - where the ambience was totally different . I was measured for height, reach and asked enough questions to be able to return back yo York that night with a quote. I tweaked that quote over the next few days and placed my order.

I bought a Raven because at the time because I was thinking of cycling around Europe, mainly on tarmac roads and good quality trails. I have no regrets over my decision. However, if I was to decide on a RTW tour - which may well happen, subject to my house being sold - I would sell my Raven and buy a Nomad with Gates drive and all the bells and whistles.

When I sold my 1st Raven, I regretted it after a week, boy, did I regret it. A Spa Audax Titanium replaced it and it was fine, a bit too twitchy for me and it didn't put a smile on my face. I sold it and bought a dog of a bike, a Thorn Raven Sport see attached

I then stripped, resprayed and rebuilt this bike, see attached

This turned out to be a blessing in disguise. The versatility of this wonderful machine is hard to believe. It will take a reasonably heavy load and has seen me tour France and Spain on it - camping and cooking to boot. I will never part with this. All said and done, I am one who believes in having the correct tools for the job and hates seeing a botch. I want to birch and flay anyone who bodges - no that's too good for them!! If a RTW tour presents itself, I will go once again to SJS Cycles and get duly measured, chew the fat with them over pro's and con's and leave there secure in the knowledge that I have done my best to find the steed that is fit for purpose.

I hope this answers your question - sorry for the long winded reply but some things are not so simple to answer - yes or no - or I dunno!
As regards the wellies, it may be prudent to park that topic now....but saying as how you asked..... definitely steel toe capped wellies and an apron for protection purposes with an appropriately cut out hole.I have no experience of bestiality and must bow to your superior experience based on 50 years of living on Skye. Let's leave that one there shall we?

Cheers

Doodah

[BikeBuddha]

I hope this answers your question - sorry for the long winded reply but some things are not so simple to answer - yes or no - or I dunno!


Cheers

Doodah

Thank you for the in depth reply. I am learning from everyone's kind replies.

It seems the way to go is buy a second hand bike for about £1000 - £1500. However, it's waiting for the right one to come along. And I'm desperately in need of a bike for exercise.

Still, when down near York, I will PM you, and take you up on your kind offer.

Finally, you said you would go with a belt drive for your RTW tour? Heard it weakens the frame. Any thoughts?



BikeBuddha

[doodah]

I hope this answers your question - sorry for the long winded reply but some things are not so simple to answer - yes or no - or I dunno!


Cheers

Doodah

Thank you for the in depth reply. I am learning from everyone's kind replies.

It seems the way to go is buy a second hand bike for about £1000 - £1500. However, it's waiting for the right one to come along. And I'm desperately in need of a bike for exercise.

Still, when down near York, I will PM you, and take you up on your kind offer.

Finally, you said you would go with a belt drive for your RTW tour? Heard it weakens the frame. Any thoughts?



BikeBuddha

Thorn have possibly been one of the last bike builders coming to the market re belt drive, but don't quote me on that. Paradoxically, they were one of the first bike builders in the UK to really push the Rohloff hub. I would deduce from that, they had reticence on the belt drive and utter and complete faith in the Rohloff. Perhaps now that the belt drive has had its teething problems sorted,(sorry about the pun) Thorn have felt inclined to make alterations to their Nomad frame. I cannot see how Thorn would market a 'weak' frame and stand by their guarantee - they just would not do it. I was reading a bit more of Alee Denham and since Thorn have added the option of belt drive to the Nomad frame, he has said it is his No1 frame of choice. Why would he take the risk of riding around the world on a weak framed bike - it doesn't make sense. Obviously, they are fit for purpose. Like so many things that we take for granted now, we viewed with scepticism years ago eg. electric windows, electric mirrors, power steering and central locking on cars - all potential things to go wrong; sat nav, air con and the list goes on. Even in the home, people frown or look at me strangely when you talk to them about air source heat pumps and the efficiency of them with big, big savings to be made against oil. They cannot comprehend change and improvement on something they do not want to understand- and so it goes with technology for bikes. I trust Thorn's judgement implicitly and their designer, Andy Blanche, has a shed load of experience that he has shared to the cycling community. Somewhere in the specification for building a Nomad, I think Andy writes - 'and you can have the option of a carbon Gates belt drive, if you must.' So make of that what you will.

Doodah

[doodah]

BikeBuddha,

Have a gawp at this link. He breaks down the components on his bike and this may help you in selecting what you need.

At the very least, you will be more informed and not in the dark quite so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djw2ZDi ... 6rDI4IhCGg

Also another link here. Happy reading.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/custom-rou ... bike-2020/

Doodah

[simonhill]

Brucey is no fan of belt drives. He argues that they are much less efficient than a chain. It can be 99% for chain and at times under 90 for belt. The belt is also subject to pulse when pedalling.

Blimey, twice I have quoted him in ½ hour. There are a few posts about belts that go into some detail - seek and ye shall find.