Bikepacking in Cornwall - West Kernow Way

[horizon]

Not luck!

Cathedrals had an enormous influence on travel, economics and cultural transfer.

And we have a thread on routes of pilgrimage.

: - )

Jonathan

I meant that the instigators of the route might or might not have given the logistics of travel any thought. The WKW doesn't appear to have benefitted in that way. Fortunately cathedrals do benefit from eight hundred years or so of infrastructure development centred indeed upon their very location.

Having said that, the WKW (and perhaps also the KAW) invites us to hark back to the balmy days of the medieval era to travel along unmade roads, devoid of signposts, lacking in accommodation, unlit at night, impassable in the wet, unsuitable for wheeled vehicles, bounded by hostile landowners and, in the case of the WKW, ending up where you started.

[Jdsk]

: - )

Jonathan

[leftpoole]

...... The new route is unlikely to attract those people because of the problems of accommodation and track surface. So what is trumpeted as a long distance route is in fact a chimera: it won't be and cannot be used as a long distance multi-day holiday route.
......

The exact route is yet to be published, but I think I'd agree here.
What puzzles me though, about this and the other CUK long-distance routes, is any connection with Sustrans - are these being done with Sustrans' help, or without - maybe CUK doesn't 'get on with' Sustrans? It seems odd that the two organisations are separately promoting cycle routes. I'd be interested if someone can point me to any previous discussion on this topic.

I have an opinion! (sorry). I used to be a supporter of Sustrans and indeed a Ranger.
In the time I was supporting (etc) I realised that Sustrans cannot have much idea about actually cycling a long way (or decent distance).
Sustrans are about short rides for people who wish to go out to somewhere and ride a bike a short distance.
NCN is a medley (hodge podge) of bits. Not suitable for touring (unless pushing bikes up steep rough roads is fun to you!)
Sustrans still going today (!) is a business seeking money to employ people to pay wages. Much like Cycling Uk. (I am still a CTC Member but wish I were not.)

[Thehairs1970]

Sustrans is not for the cycle tourer really. They have a few routes cobbled together - West Country Way, Coast to Coast etc but are really about sustainable transport. You only have to look at their campaigns for safer streets to see this. I think they get knocked on this forum to easily. I think the complainers want them to be something they aren’t. A bit like wishing the AA would do more for boat owners.

[horizon]

. I think they get knocked on this forum to easily. I think the complainers want them to be something they aren’t.

Top maintenance tips for cycle touring
Are you looking to challenge yourself on a long-distance bike ride? Or are you organising a bike touring holiday over the summer?

https://www.sustrans.org.uk/our-blog/ge ... le-touring

To be fair, I think Sustrans probably raised expectations in that direction and maybe wanted to create the cycling equivalent of the LDPs. The National Cycle Network also suggested something that it wasn't. After all, if the all paths link up with each other then you do have a long distance route. My point about WKW is that it doesn't quite work so well with a bicycle for overnight touring whereas, ironically, a backpacker might be better off.

I suppose we are saying that a day ride for someone on an MTB is different from an overnight ride for someone on a loaded touring bike: the two seem to get conflated in the publicity bumpf - and the fact that there will be the more than occasional hardy bikepacker who manages to do it as a long distance ride, only serves to make their point.

I'm writing all this as I'm genuinely unsure myself where the truth lies. What I wouldn't want is to see all new routes trumpeted as long distance if in fact it means seriously assessing how you travel, the physical challenge involved and the need for maybe a different bike and equipment. People who already do a lot of off-road (or in fact never even go on the road) won't see where the problem lies.

[Jdsk]

"The route will be launched on 3 September to coincide with the Tour of Britain passing through Cornwall."
https://www.cyclinguk.org/west-kernow-way

Jonathan

[peetee]

It’s online now.
Any forum regulars are welcome to stop for a cuppa - the route passes my front door.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Very interesting. The assertive approach being taken to "lost ways" is brave. Not saying I necessarily disagree with it... but it's definitely brave.

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/c1 ... 9face73249

[peetee]

Very interesting. The assertive approach being taken to "lost ways" is brave. Not saying I necessarily disagree with it... but it's definitely brave.

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/c1 ... 9face73249

Thanks for including that. It’s something I have recently taken a great interest in. I have only read the first few lines but will finish the piece in due course.
Here in the historic mining district we have a great network of rights of way and also a large number of unclassified tracks and thoroughfares that are clearly old, being bordered by Cornish hedges, in most cases. Many would appear to link clusters or single cottages with former places of work or larger settlements. Their lack of status as a right of way means they are largely ignored and my worry is that occupants of bordering properties, many unfamiliar with the historical purpose and age of these routes, may well seek to block access with private lane notices to protect their privacy.
I have already navigated some of these routes and so far not been prevented or obstructed - vegetation aside! Many make for good cycling routes with the right bike but having been on the receiving end of NIMBYism in the past it would be good to know where I stand if it’s directed at me again.

[Zulu Eleven]

Worth sharing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju8F3GXl6Ec

[stumars]

Just back from a holiday in Cornwall. Did a large proportion of the West Kernow way as day rides from Porthleven.

A few comments.

First and foremost this is not for the faint hearted or happy family groups. It is pretty full on stuff. The loop we did round the lizard for instance measured 52 miles and had 4350 ft of climbs. When we weren't scrambling up rough single track we were flying down steep inclines to multiple creeks immediately followed equally steep climbs out.

It's not signposted and even with all maps or electronic aids you will inevitably take a few wrong turns. These will add a few more miles to your days.

The "lost ways" is an interesting concept and I fully understand the ambitions of UK cycling but a local farmer at Windyridge farm close to Predannock Airfield beyond Mullion did not share these ambitions. He did not appreciate cyclists crossing the footpath across his land and spent 20 minutes or so explaining that he personally had never been consulted and he felt allowing cyclists down a steep, often busy footpath was dangerous. He also felt the stretch when wet would be almost impassable. In no way was he unpleasant but he told us he had stopped many cyclists since the route opened. He did let us pass eventually. The subsequent route was very dry but also churned up and I suspect would be difficult in the wet.

Incidentally despite the very dry spell, several parts of the route were very muddy with puddles well over 6 inches deep. Garrow lane out of Mullion for instance would be a swamp in wet weather as would be an extremely long wet section beyond Relubbus along side the fishing lakes. We got soaked on this section despite weeks without any substantial rain, I cannot begin to imagine what it might be like after some heavy rain. Of course this is not much of a problem for a day ride, part of the fun!!, but those carrying kit for 3-4 days might not appreciate getting so wet and muddy.

The route across Kennack sands between Cadgwith and Coverack is confusing. It suggests you cross the beach but this is impossible at high water and you have to use the narrow path on the cliff. This should be OK later in the year but at the beginning of September the beach was still busy and they were dozens of people using this path.

The foot path out of this beach is steep and advice is to get off and push as it is not a bridle path. If you're loaded up you'll be doing this anyway!!

Finally bike choice. I think for the first part of the Lizard section a gravel bike would awful with sections too rough and steep. I would even go as far as to recommend a light full sus bike for this section but from Coverack onwards it's mostly small country lanes with loads of ups and downs which would suit a gravel or even a road bike. I think in one of the reviews in the press, the rider said after he had done the route he would probably use a gravel bike but put 45mm tyres on. This might be the best option but still somewhat of a compromise.

Overall however the bits we did were thoroughly enjoyable and the scenery stunning. The people that have put this route together deserve much credit and I am sure with some further and continuous tweaking the route will be a great success.

Stu

[Zulu Eleven]

He did not appreciate cyclists crossing the footpath across his land

Just as a comment for the record, it’s not his land. There’s a short section of unregistered ownership highways land past his farm, and the rest is owned by the national trust, where we have a permissive access agreement following the track. The historic status of this whole section is well documented on old maps, including the tithe map, as highway, but was recorded as footpath on the 1950s (after being submitted by the parish council as RUPP)

The foot path out of this beach is steep and advice is to get off and push as it is not a bridle path. If you're loaded up you'll be doing this anyway!!

This was a key factor in us deciding it was appropriate to use this section - that you’ll be pushing anyway (so even regardless of the ‘lost way’ factor of unrecorded highway rights, there’s no prohibition on pushing bikes on CROW access land - unsettled argument regards pushing on footpaths already well recorded). The only alternative route is a six mile detour along busy/fast roads.

[horizon]

The people that have put this route together deserve much credit and I am sure with some further and continuous tweaking the route will be a great success.

I'm just wondering that, given your other comments, if there isn't still a discrepancy between the hype of a doable long distance route and the reality. I'm still getting the impression (albeit from the comfort of my armchair) that the route is a significant challenge and is driven mainly by (a) a push to get cyclists off the roads at all costs and (b) the desire to get on board with latest trends.

Had the route been quietly touted as a technical challenge in terms not only of terrain but also route finding and logistics, then I would feel more comfortable. I might be being unfair but I can't quite settle where this route belongs.

[Andrew-l]

Had the route been quietly touted as a technical challenge in terms not only of terrain but also route finding and logistics, then I would feel more comfortable. I might be being unfair but I can't quite settle where this route belongs.

It's an off-road tour for mountain bikes. That's what it seems like to me.

[Zulu Eleven]

I'm still getting the impression (albeit from the comfort of my armchair) that the route is a significant challenge and is driven mainly by (a) a push to get cyclists off the roads at all costs and (b) the desire to get on board with latest trends.

I can assure you that it’s neither of those things. It’s far more closely aligned with a desire to reconnect people with nature and exploration/adventure and get the, to places they simply wouldn’t otherwise see. King Alfred’s way, for example, the optional approach to Stonehenge comes along an ancient byway, pretty much out of sight of the road, that is simply majestic. When (if) the tunnel gets completed the experience will be stunning, and timeless. Similarly on WKW the experience of Tinners way and some of the coastal areas are just as timeless, you’re riding a path which we have evidence of use back to Neolithic times.

Had the route been quietly touted as a technical challenge in terms not only of terrain but also route finding and logistics, then I would feel more comfortable.

There’s three issues here.

One: Recorded legal status of public rights of way (which has nothing to do with physical suitability). Detail on that is covered here: https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/what-are ... kernow-way (though I’ll throw in an amusing anecdote that on one of the recce rides, a landowner came out complaining about the riders using the signed tarmac Bridleway past his house, which shows just how much parochial BS is involved here that has nothing to do with legal status)

Two: Brambles/mud/nettles. Within the bounds of extremes (and I’m thinking here of one lane I know that isn’t on this route which is absolutley impenetrable six foot deep brambles and rhododendron bushes) then there is a simple answer: “that’s off-road cycling”. It changes with the seasons. There are a couple of sections that will be seriously wet and muddy and impassable after wet weather, they are marked on the maps in the guide book. We have recently tweaked the GPX on one of them to clarify the alternative, but with the odd squelch and slip it should be fine and rideable most of the year - but what I have seen from this end is a very clear reminder of just *how* separated society has become from nature - people with what appears to be little or no understanding of seasonality or weather, of how weather affects trails, of tyre choice, of nettles - but as far as I’m concerned encountering these issues is part of the joys of the countryside and is an ingrained and inherent part of rough-stuff/off-road cycling/mountain biking proper (rather than blasting round a groomed skalextric track in a forest park).

Three: challenge/technicality - let’s describe this as a continuum/spectrum, at one end you have wide tarmac paths, the other end you have Steep rocky stepped paths that most people could only accomplish with a mountain bike. Cycling is a broad church, what is ‘unridable’ to some is very much rideable to others. WKW has bits of everything, there are short stretches (the most difficult of which are optional) where you may have to get off and push, another rider might not - This is sometimes difficult to convey, but between the guidebook, specifically cross referencing to mountain bike trail centre ‘blue’ trails as a point of reference (which I think remains accurate and fair) and the videos published supporting the route I believe we have put out a lot of information discussing and informing on this, including very clearly saying that some off-road skills and experience are required… if your background is entirely road cycling then this probably isn’t the route for you - but it’s all rideable by an experienced, skilled rider, as Guykestv proves in the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTpDEYTKc3Y&3037s (which I would add really does show how durable a gravel bike can be)