What is CUK doing for us?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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CJ
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What is CUK doing for us?

Post by CJ »

I don't know about you, but I'm starting to ask myself, what does this organisation actually do to encourage people to travel by bike? And by travel I mean go on journeys for pleasure, not just in UK but also abroad, like other people do by car and on foot.

It's a given that much of what CUK does to lobby for cycling in general, is just as useful when you're on a longer journey - in the UK at least. So no need to go on about that. What, on the other hand, is it doing about issues that specifically relate to cycle-travel?

It seems to me that CUK is doing very little, specifically for (okay I'll call a spade a spade) TOURING! And whenever there's any conflict of interest between cycle-touring and other aspects of CUK's agenda, touring is dumped or worse: dumped upon!

What brought this to a head for me was CUK's management and trustees' uncritical support of an AGM motion to discourage touring cyclists from flying, whilst filling the magazine with articles making out that it's dead easy to go wherever you want in Europe by train. We all know it isn't. The European Cycling Federation knows it isn't. Trains for Cyclists is their headline campaign. But whereas CTC used to be an associate member of ECF, CUK it is not and does not spend a penny of our subscriptions on supporting the really useful work of ECF throughout that continent we love to visit, and has never even mentioned this campaign in Cycle or Cycle-Clips. Why not when getting more bikes, as bikes, onto international trains, is the only way to take the carbon out of European cycle touring? Is it to hide CUK's shame in not being any part of it, or to avoid giving the lie to their rose-tinted view of international bike-rail travel? CUK apparently finds it much easier and far cheaper, to flight-shame it's own supporters.

Even in UK, CTC/CUK's bikes on trains campaigning has prioritised the free carriage of bikes on an ad hoc basis, rather than reliability over long journeys, in return for a reasonable fee. The former suits commuting and opportunist bike-rail use, but is possible only when very few people want to cycle. In the future we would like to see, when cycling is for all as in Holland, taking your non-folding bike on the train is for long-distance travel or emergencies. If it were cheap and easy enough for every day, everyone would do it and the Dutch would need twice as many trains! I've had this argument with one of CTC's erstwhile campaigners, his reply: "8 bookable bike spaces on every train may suit you but will likely kill cycle commuting. Replace the every day journey with one occasional journey." I think that reveals the prevailing mentality and totally urban focus of British cycle campaigners. And I think there's actually quite a lot of cycle commuting in Holland, facilitated by a lot of secure cycle parking at stations. Another nice statistic is that for one third of Germans, their annual holiday involves cycling.

CTC/CUK's neglect of cycle-touring goes back way further. Do you remember the International Camping Carnet? I don't know what's become of it now but it used to provide insurance for your camping gear as well as generous discounts at campsites throughout Europe. In some countries you could hardly camp at all without one and CTC used to supply it, but ceased in order to save itself a few quid on the grounds that not many members cycle-camped and they could get it elsewhere.

Then there are those ferry services that don't admit cycling passengers. In cars yes, on motorbikes okay, on pedal cycles no! What is CUK - so keen for us not to fly - doing about that? Absolutely nothing!

CTC was once the world-leading promoter of cycle-touring, not only setting an example of how to get decent road surfaces, regulate hotels and make good cycling maps in this country, but negotiating duty-free passage of a traveller's personal bicycle through customs and with consuls in every part of the world, providing information to visiting members. Until recently we at least had a touring information service, but now - just this here forum. Now it's totally do-it-yourself.

Meanwhile, other countries' cycling organisations put us to shame in the touring field. ADFC (Germany) cooperates with the publication of great maps, ENFB publishes a guide to cycling in Europe. In UK one could reasonably argue that Sustrans does more to promote cycle-touring and here's a thing: they ARE associate members of ECF, so part of any subscription you make to Sustrans does go towards promoting the thing you most enjoy doing.

That's me, what do you think?
Chris Juden
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mattsccm
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by mattsccm »

It went wrong when touring was superceded by making a fuss. At that point I lost interest all togther. Carried on coughing up out of loyalty for a while then quit. Wrong priorities if you ask me.
Barred1
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by Barred1 »

With you 100% Chris

BUT in today's information age it's not too difficult to think of/plan/organise/participate in cycle touring without the stuff that CTC used to publish.

Which gets to the question : Does a cycle tourist benefit from or need CTC/CUK? - I don't.
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pete75
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by pete75 »

If you're in any Ditch town or city at going to work or knocking off times you'll see there's a lot more than "quite a lot" of cycle commuters. It was like that here once for example even in the seventies Houghton Road in Grantham was kerb to kerb with bikes at Aveling Barford's knocking off time. Not called commuting then though just going to work.

Camping Carnet is available from the Camping and Caravan Club which is a good organisation for cycle campers here as it has a lot of small members only sites all over the country on farms and suchlike. They also get members decent discounts on ferry fares. I wonder ifa Cycle tourists section could be formed under the auspices of the CaCC. They already have a section called the Association of Lightweight Campers http://lightweightcampers.org.uk/, many of whom travel by bike and will be familiar faces to anyone who regularly camps at York or Mildenhall.

Most ferries seem to take bikes but it can be much more economical to go over by car and park up on the other side. For example the last time my son and I toured in France it would have cost £100 return for the pair of us but only £72 return by car. Fixed price regardless of how many in the car so four folk and bikes could have done the trip for the 72 quid. Secure and free parking in the middle of St. Omer too. If Cycling UK want to reduce carbon maybe they should push for special offers for bikes when the the ferry companies have them for cars - usually at not normally busy times.
From the north and midlands it's awkward to get to Dover by train with a bike and even more so to Harwich. On many of the services it's not possible to reserve a bike space which is not good if you need to catch a ferry at a booked time. CUK seem to think this OK going by what CJ has been told. As well as the difficulties of getting a bike space on a train there's very often a vast cost difference between air and rail. A lot of people couldn't afford to go cycle touring in say Latvia if it wasn't for cheap flights.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
bohrsatom
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by bohrsatom »

To be fair, CUK were involved with lobbying Eurostar a few years back when new trains were introduced that had significantly less space for bikes. They helped get them to permit carrying a few fully assembled bikes on each service, instead of requiring everyone to put their bikes into a box before travel.

Overall though I’d say the switch from CTC to CUK was a change in direction of travel, and one I’m generally in support of. I tour occasionally but ride every day, and refocusing around safe streets/protected cycle lanes was a good move.
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RickH
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by RickH »

mattsccm wrote: 26 May 2021, 7:48pm It went wrong when touring was superceded by making a fuss.
Yes, that will be in 1886 when they helped set up the Roads Improvement Association! :twisted:
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ClappedOut
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by ClappedOut »

A forum about all I know, but interesting to see what else currently active like more cycle paths etc
NickWi
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by NickWi »

I gave up when the CTC rebranded itself CUK complete with a childish logo and forgot what the "T" bit meant.
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by scottg »

I thought that Brucey was one of the more important services of the CTC.
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by mattsccm »

Roads around here haven't improved since 1986! :D In fact none I ride have.
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by Vorpal »

I am not as familiar with what Cycling UK are doing today, but for me, one of the biggest things was the network of local campaigners. It was the main reason I joined & the folks that I knew in the CTC are still doing that under Cycling UK. Campaigning in Norway is a different kettle of fish. There are fewer campaigners & resources, and the Norwegian national cycling organisation, Syklistene, are not as active in campaigning on behalf of cyclists.

That said, they do some good work. I've been thinking about writing a blog about it, but I'm too busy campaigning :lol: :lol:

As far as neglect of touring goes.... There were some attempts to establish touring oriented clubs after the charity conversion, but as far I know that didn't get very far?

There are certainly some local clubs thriving with touring as part or most of their focus. The ones that I am aware of are CUK affiliated.

The CUK website has some decent resources for touring.

I agree entirely on the campaigning for train spaces. I do think that that there is a need for train space for *both* commuters (or at least local travellers) & long distance. I have taken my bike on both local and long distance trains in several countries, and honestly, I think that a fee for a bike space, in exchange for good provision is a reasonable trade off. And I agree that it would be good to see so many commuting cyclists that it is impractical to provide train spaces for all of them. The UK has a long way to go when it comes to touring by public transport & bike. It is *so* easy by by comparison in Denmark & Norway. They also need to improve understanding of pedal cycles as mobility aids, and that is a related area that I think CUK could make themselves useful.

I think that in some ways, things need to be a little different in the UK because Sustrans exists. CUK doesn't need to do the things that Sustrans does, but they can coordinate on campaigning. I would like to the see the organisations do more together & be better coordinated. When I was campaigning in the UK, I sometimes butted heads with the regional coordinator from Sustrans due to different philosophies, and it did not help our case, even though we both wanted to help cyclists.

I think that the focus on everyday cycling is mostly right.
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by al_yrpal »

NickWi wrote: 26 May 2021, 11:22pm I gave up when the CTC rebranded itself CUK complete with a childish logo and forgot what the "T" bit meant.
As did literally thousands of us. The pandemic did more for cycling than CUK

Al
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by KTHSullivan »

al_yrpal wrote: 27 May 2021, 9:27am
NickWi wrote: 26 May 2021, 11:22pm I gave up when the CTC rebranded itself CUK complete with a childish logo and forgot what the "T" bit meant.
As did literally thousands of us. The pandemic did more for cycling than CUK

Al
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by bikepacker »

KTHSullivan wrote: 27 May 2021, 9:29am
al_yrpal wrote: 27 May 2021, 9:27am
NickWi wrote: 26 May 2021, 11:22pm I gave up when the CTC rebranded itself CUK complete with a childish logo and forgot what the "T" bit meant.
As did literally thousands of us. The pandemic did more for cycling than CUK

Al
+1
+2

IMO. the CTC started to loose its way the day they gave Kevin Mayne the job of Director
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Re: What is CUK doing for us?

Post by mjr »

Vorpal wrote: 27 May 2021, 9:21am I am not as familiar with what Cycling UK are doing today, but for me, one of the biggest things was the network of local campaigners. It was the main reason I joined & the folks that I knew in the CTC are still doing that under Cycling UK.
Really? That was one of the things deterring me originally, with local CTC campaigning against good riverside cycleways and arguing that we should fight to preserve a "right to ride" among HGVs through a busy industrial estate!
I agree entirely on the campaigning for train spaces.
I broadly agree but not entirely. We have some parts of the UK where taking a bike on the train for touring is straightforward (like the bike bays on Flirt, Desiro, Civity and multifunction spaces on most Aventra), but the problems are that it's not universal, there's incomplete information and new Hitachi AT300s (aka GWR IET, LNER Azuma, TPE Nova something, ...) are still being built with unsuitable bike-hanging cupboards.
I think that in some ways, things need to be a little different in the UK because Sustrans exists. CUK doesn't need to do the things that Sustrans does, but they can coordinate on campaigning. [...]
Sustrans gave CUK a big opportunity to expand last year with their admission that the National Cycle Network is a failure and cutting it back to be not a network, then annoying loads of cyclists by wasting thousands of pounds of resources going out to remove route numbers.

However, CUK show no sign of being interested in creating a touring network, maybe by collaborating with the National Byway which is maybe more in line with CTCers views, with the only recent launches being "let them eat dirt" MTB stuff.

And don't talk to me about the government-appointed British Cycling and their disconnect between campaigning and sports.

There remains a big gap in the UK for a national intercity cycling-for-all organisation like the ADFC, GRACQ or the Fietsersbonds.
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