Europe 2021

[francovendee]

I think France going onto the amber plus list has been a good idea, it protects both countries from infecting each other.
My chum who went back to the UK at the same time as some friends were holidaying there and both had to quarantine.
My chum didn't receive one phone call to check that he was obeying the rules.
My friends were rung everyday. It all seems very random.

[ossie]

Don't forget the "if you are found to have been in contact with someone who tested positive..." If so, you self isolate or quarantine, effectively ruining your holiday.

app..what app ..especially in line with Insurance companies saying they won't cover that for cancellation reasons.

[MrsHJ]

Don't forget the "if you are found to have been in contact with someone who tested positive..." If so, you self isolate or quarantine, effectively ruining your holiday.

app..what app ..especially in line with Insurance companies saying they won't cover that for cancellation reasons.

No isolation for the double vaccinated from mid August anyhow if I understood the new rules correctly.

[Vorpal]

As an aside which isn’t relevant at the moment as you can’t really travel if you aren’t jabbed my insurance won’t cover anything medical to do with COVID unless I’m fully vaccinated.

I had to travel recently to move my father into a nursing home & deal with some of his personal & financial affairs.

I bought expensive insurance for the trip that covered covid & covid-related delays and cancellations. I don't think that vaccination status was significant, as they did not ask me. My trouble with purchasing insurance, and the reason it was expensive, was that the governments of both countries were limiting travel & recommending against it.

My insurance was only for Norwegian residents, but I imagine that there are companies willing to provide similar insurance in other countries. It just may not be from the insurance companies that you would normally use.

[MrsHJ]

As an aside which isn’t relevant at the moment as you can’t really travel if you aren’t jabbed my insurance won’t cover anything medical to do with COVID unless I’m fully vaccinated.

I had to travel recently to move my father into a nursing home & deal with some of his personal & financial affairs.

I bought expensive insurance for the trip that covered covid & covid-related delays and cancellations. I don't think that vaccination status was significant, as they did not ask me. My trouble with purchasing insurance, and the reason it was expensive, was that the governments of both countries were limiting travel & recommending against it.

My insurance was only for Norwegian residents, but I imagine that there are companies willing to provide similar insurance in other countries. It just may not be from the insurance companies that you would normally use.

Sorry to hear about your dad.

For me this is the link to the cover- the vaccination point is about half way down. I think they should really include it as a question for when you are getting cover. Anyway not an issue for me as I am vaccinated. https://www.sportscoverdirect.com/coron ... q-q&202105

We hope to be in Norway for Xmas- fingers crossed travel is easier by then (and we can get in!).

[Vorpal]

We hope to be in Norway for Xmas- fingers crossed travel is easier by then (and we can get in!).

Are you travelling to visit close family? Otherwise I think that you are unlikely to be allowed to travel to Norway.

[MrsHJ]

It’s a holiday in Geilo but it is ATOL protected and we had this discussion about what if when we booked- we booked it last January hoping things would be more normal by this Xmas. We’ve used the firm several times before and we’ll get refunded if we can’t travel.

I’d guess we may get to go somewhere else as many European countries are now open to visitors- we’ll see - Norway works for my son who’s autistic and likes a quieter environment. I’ll start worrying about it in a month or six weeks when the final payment is due and I guess we’ll have a conversation then with the operator about high likely we are to be able to travel.

[Vorpal]

Geilo is lovely. I've been there several times. I hope you like winter sport.

I have just found out from a fellow British immigrant that the UK is now included in countries that people can travel from. However, unless the covid infection rate goes down enough to be 'green' by the Norwegian government criteria, or the UK joins the EU covid vaccination certificate programme (or agrees something with Norway independently), people arriving from the UK have to quarantine.

Information is here https://www.udi.no/en/about-the-corona- ... link-24945

They are pretty good about keeping stuff up to date, but it changes frequently, and sometimes the UDI (immigration) website and FHI (health) websites are out of sync. I had some trouble figuring it all out when we returned.

[willem jongman]

I think the focus by governments on travel restrictions is increasingly misguided for countries in the EU and the like. The danger does not come from outside, now that much of the UK and EU populations have been fully vaccinated, and now that we are all suffering from the same delta variant. The real danger comes as much from inside our countries, from the unvaccinated among us. Among hospital admissions for Covid, the vast majority are unvaccinated, even though they are by now a small proportion of the population. In the Netherlands about 85% of the over 18s have now had a first dose (and by now some three quarters of them also their second), and the 12-17 year olds are currently being vaccinated. However, if you look at the more detailed numbers, among the over 60s the vaccination rate is in the range 90-95% for first doses, but it is about 65% for the 18-35 year olds, and from what I understand the same is roughly true for the UK. However, this young age group is precisely the group that visits bars, discos and the like, either at home, or in holiday resorts. So pressurising them to get vaccinated should be an urgent priority, and in my view, and looking at the Dutch age specific infection numbers, this should include the 12-17 year olds. The French and Italian decisions to limit access to bars etc to those who can demonstrate vaccination is an excellent idea that deserves to be copied (of course, this presupposes compliance with the EU digital vaccination certificate). The German government has already indicated that similar measures may be implemented there too, and I would hope also in education. I fail to understand how we can safely reopen universities when there are still unvaccinated students. I notice that all major US universities that I have looked at have a mandatory vaccination policy: no vaccination, no Harvard, Princeton, Stanford etc education. Admittedly and perhaps importantly I do not know if the vaccination rate among students is similar to their larger age group or if they have a far higher higher vaccination rate (we know that better educated people are more inclined to be vaccinated)? My son, who is a student leader, tells me that he does not know a single student who did not get vaccinated. Both my children recently had their second dose, and they both felt it was their lucky day.

[Jdsk]

I fail to understand how we can safely reopen universities when there are still unvaccinated students. I notice that all major US universities that I have looked at have a mandatory vaccination policy: no vaccination, no Harvard, Princeton, Stanford etc education. Admittedly and perhaps importantly I do not know if the vaccination rate among students is similar to their larger age group or if they have a far higher higher vaccination rate (we know that better educated people are more inclined to be vaccinated)? My son, who is a student leader, tells me that he does not know a single student who did not get vaccinated.

Shifting to another thread might be appropriate but here's a convenient infographic from another country:


https://www.economist.com/united-states ... st-the-jab

Jonathan

[willem jongman]

None of this is surprising, and I am sure some of this also applies to the UK or the EU, although our countries are not nearly as socially and culturally divided as the US. In the Netherlands we have two cultural/social groups with major vaccine hesitancy: the small pockets of traditional calvinism where vaccine rejection is a tradition, and disadvantaged inner city communities with large proportions of immigrants. In the calvinist communities GPs are now offering discreet vaccination opportunities for those who do not want to be seen to recieve a vaccination. Immigrant communities with low levels of education are hard to reach, and more targeted efforts should have been made early on. Here the one shot Janssen vaccine, though not as effective as the others, is a useful tool (although the modern mRNA vaccines are also offered).

[Aquila]

I have a ferry booked, Newcastle to Ijmuiden at the beginging of September. I had my fingers crossed I'd be able to travel but the UK is still on the banned entry list to the Netherlands and I fail to understand why given that U.S. citizens are allowed entry and now double jabbed EU citizens are allowed entry into the Uk without having to quarantine.....Looks like I will be now switching dates yet again to next year, disappointed is an understatement.

[willem jongman]

It is a combination of two things: high infection rate and no longer EU membership. Current UK infection rate is about three times higher than in the Netherlands and also higher than in the US, although not by that much anymore. I would not be surprised if some states in the US will soon be blacklisted as well.

[scragend]

It is a combination of two things: high infection rate and no longer EU membership. Current UK infection rate is about three times higher than in the Netherlands and also higher than in the US, although not by that much anymore. I would not be surprised if some states in the US will soon be blacklisted as well.

But the official reason given is that the UK is a "very high risk country with a variant of concern". I could understand it in the early days of the Delta variant but, now that the Delta variant is already widespread across the continent of Europe, how does the UK still have a variant of concern?

The countries on this list are:
Argentina
Bangladesh
Bolivia
Brazil
Chile
Colombia
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
French Guiana
Guyana
India
Myanmar
Nepal
Pakistan
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
South Africa
Suriname
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Venezuela

Having the UK still on that list is like playing "spot the odd one out". There can't be any scientific justification for it, it can only be politics.

I did hope that once the restrictions on entering the UK from the EU had been eased (as they now have), the EU* might reciprocate. But it seems not.

* = It is an "EU entry ban" after all, set by the EU, which the Netherlands as an EU member state has adopted. Most other EU countries, however, seem to have ignored this EU entry ban and set their own rules.

I have a ferry booked, Newcastle to Ijmuiden at the beginging of September. I had my fingers crossed I'd be able to travel but the UK is still on the banned entry list to the Netherlands and I fail to understand why given that U.S. citizens are allowed entry and now double jabbed EU citizens are allowed entry into the Uk without having to quarantine.....Looks like I will be now switching dates yet again to next year, disappointed is an understatement.

Same. I still have a ferry booked, Harwich to Hoek, for 15th August. I've been hanging on as long as possible but I've pretty much given up hope now and will cancel.

Of course, when I cancel, the Netherlands/EU/both will announce a relaxation the following day!

[willem jongman]

Within the EU countries have agreed that as part of the EU principle of unrestricted travel for EU citizens they will not impose restrictions on fully vaccinated travellers who can document their status. Travel from outside the EU was and remains at the discretion of individual member states.
Whether restricting travel from the UK makes scientific sense is a different matter. By and large I lean to the view that full vaccination should be enough. On the other hand, the UK has extremely high infection numbers, and we now know that even fully vaccinated people are four times more infectious if infected with the delta variant compared to the original virus. Do we want to take that risk? I honestly do not think this is politics - if anything, our government has tended to be in favour of fewer restrictions than our scientific experts.