Europe 2021

[st599_uk]

* = It is an "EU entry ban" after all, set by the EU, which the Netherlands as an EU member state has adopted. Most other EU countries, however, seem to have ignored this EU entry ban and set their own rules.

It's not an EU ban - the EU has no treaty to enable them to do that. What they do have is a common framework for reporting restrictions. The individual announcements are collated here: https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/default ... 210715.pdf

[scragend]

It's not an EU ban - the EU has no treaty to enable them to do that. What they do have is a common framework for reporting restrictions. The individual announcements are collated here: https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/default ... 210715.pdf

Better give the Government of the Netherlands a heads up then:
https://www.government.nl/topics/corona ... -entry-ban

An EU entry ban is in effect for people from countries outside the European Union. This means they are not allowed to enter the EU or the Schengen area and therefore the Netherlands.

[MrsHJ]

Geilo is lovely. I've been there several times. I hope you like winter sport.

I have just found out from a fellow British immigrant that the UK is now included in countries that people can travel from. However, unless the covid infection rate goes down enough to be 'green' by the Norwegian government criteria, or the UK joins the EU covid vaccination certificate programme (or agrees something with Norway independently), people arriving from the UK have to quarantine.

Information is here https://www.udi.no/en/about-the-corona- ... link-24945

They are pretty good about keeping stuff up to date, but it changes frequently, and sometimes the UDI (immigration) website and FHI (health) websites are out of sync. I had some trouble figuring it all out when we returned.

It’ll be our third trip there- we stay at the Geilolia Hyttetun (not been at xmas before) - thank you for the link and information. Fingers crossed.

[Vorpal]

It’ll be our third trip there- we stay at the Geilolia Hyttetun (not been at xmas before) - thank you for the link and information. Fingers crossed.

I've mostly stayed at Geilo Hytter & Camping, but I stayed once at Vestlia Resort (near Geilolia Hyttetun) when I was there as a volunteer with the Tour of Norway. I thought then that Geilolia Hyttetun looked nice. I didn't get to enjoy much, then. We were up for early start to set up for an uphill finish on that stage of the Tour.

edited to add: UDI updated the website yesterday to say that they will accept the Covid Passport from England & Wales from next week... https://www.regjeringen.no/no/aktuelt/n ... lt/nyheter
It's not available in English, yet.

[scragend]

I haven't seen an explicit announcement from the Dutch side about this, but it appears that they have indeed relaxed the restrictions to an extent on travellers from the UK, by moving the UK from the list of "very high risk countries with a variant of concern", to the list of just "very high risk countries".

On this page, it now gives "United Kingdom (until 8 August)" - the part in parentheses wasn't there last time I looked a couple of days ago.

The FCDO, for its part, has picked up on it:

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advic ... quirements

As of 8 August the Dutch authorities will change its classification of the UK from ‘a very high risk country with a variant of concern’ to ‘a very high risk country’ which will mean that fully vaccinated UK nationals, who can provide acceptable proof of vaccination, which includes the NHS COVID Pass, will be allowed to enter the Netherlands. Children under the age of 18 travelling with vaccinated adults are not required to show proof of vaccination.

OH WAIT...

The requirement for quarantine hasn't been lifted.

Forget it!

[mjr]

Having the UK still on that list is like playing "spot the odd one out". There can't be any scientific justification for it, it can only be politics.

It could be all sorts of other reasons. They might be published only in Dutch.

Given that various regulators and scrutineers including the ONS and select committees have rebuked gov.uk several times for not publishing their reasons, I think UK residents should be cautious about throwing stones at other governments for making the same mistake, or retaliating.

[De Sisti]

I had to put some paragraphs in to make this post easier to read!

I think the focus by governments on travel restrictions is increasingly misguided for countries in the EU and the like. The danger does not come from outside, now that much of the UK and EU populations have been fully vaccinated, and now that we are all suffering from the same delta variant. The real danger comes as much from inside our countries, from the unvaccinated among us.

Among hospital admissions for Covid, the vast majority are unvaccinated, even though they are by now a small proportion of the population. In the Netherlands about 85% of the over 18s have now had a first dose (and by now some three quarters of them also their second), and the 12-17 year olds are currently being vaccinated.

However, if you look at the more detailed numbers, among the over 60s the vaccination rate is in the range 90-95% for first doses, but it is about 65% for the 18-35 year olds, and from what I understand the same is roughly true for the UK. However, this young age group is precisely the group that visits bars, discos and the like, either at home, or in holiday resorts.

So pressurising them to get vaccinated should be an urgent priority, and in my view, and looking at the Dutch age specific infection numbers, this should include the 12-17 year olds. The French and Italian decisions to limit access to bars etc to those who can demonstrate vaccination is an excellent idea that deserves to be copied (of course, this presupposes compliance with the EU digital vaccination certificate).

The German government has already indicated that similar measures may be implemented there too, and I would hope also in education. I fail to understand how we can safely reopen universities when there are still unvaccinated students. I notice that all major US universities that I have looked at have a mandatory vaccination policy: no vaccination, no Harvard, Princeton, Stanford etc education.

Admittedly and perhaps importantly I do not know if the vaccination rate among students is similar to their larger age group or if they have a far higher higher vaccination rate (we know that better educated people are more inclined to be vaccinated)? My son, who is a student leader, tells me that he does not know a single student who did not get vaccinated. Both my children recently had their second dose, and they both felt it was their lucky day.

[willem jongman]

Daily infection numbers in the Netherlands continue to decline, but not that fast. They are now at about 120 per million. Hospital admissions and hospital occupancy for Covid are stable but too high.
Vaccination continues, now mostly as second doses and for young people. Coverage is now comparable with the UK (slightly better with first doses, slightly worse with seconds). In particular there is still a pretty long way to go with the 12-35 year olds: for the 18-35 olds the vaccination rate is still only about 65% with first doses. Take up among 12-17 year olds is probably about 50% by now and rising. Vacination of the 6-11 year olds is discussed but safety and dosage data are stll lacking. There is no shortage of vaccines.

[willem jongman]

Dutch border police have started checking holiday travellers returning by car for Covid certificates. Moreover, dozens of Dutch holiday travellers have had to quarantine in hotels abroad because they tested positive before returning home (airlines will not take them).

[MrsHJ]

Dutch border police have started checking holiday travellers returning by car for Covid certificates. Moreover, dozens of Dutch holiday travellers have had to quarantine in hotels abroad because they tested positive before returning home (airlines will not take them).

It’s this second part that does concern me (the testing positive whilst overseas). It’s not a huge concern but it it would be disruptive.

[willem jongman]

Yes that is the risk unvaccinated people take. The number of people who were infected on holiday has increased quite a bit.

[MrsHJ]

Yes that is the risk unvaccinated people take. The number of people who were infected on holiday has increased quite a bit.

It’s a vaccinated risk too. You can still catch it and then you’ll have to isolate. Plenty of breakthrough infections. It’s not that you’re likely to be seriously ill but you can still pass it on. NB I have friends and family who’ve caught COVID after being fully jabbed by both Pfizer and AstraZeneca.

[willem jongman]

True, but if you are fully vaccinated you do not have to test before you get onto the plane or at an EU border crossing. If you are actually really ill it is of course a different matter.

[MrsHJ]

True, but if you are fully vaccinated you do not have to test before you get onto the plane or at an EU border crossing. If you are actually really ill it is of course a different matter.

Currently you have to test to get into the UK by any route- not quite sure why given our level of infections but then again I don’t want to sit next to someone with COVID on a plane/ferry/train. So unless you have symptoms it’s most likely you’ll get a positive test just before you plan to come home.

I can see why schengen has different rules given all the land borders. I think travel between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland may also not be subject to testing.

[willem jongman]

Statistically, your risk of infection while travelling is lower within the Schengen area than within the UK. The infection rate in the Netherlands is relatively high (seriously too high in my view), but at about 120 per million still lower than in the UK. Vaccination rates have become quite similar: as of yesterday in the Netherlands 84% of all over 18's have had a first dose and 71% are fully vaccinated. Surveys show that 90% have indicated that they have been or want to be vaccinated, but seeing is believing. By now 47% of the 12-17 year olds have had their first dose and a major effort is being made to increase that number as much as possible before the schools reopen. Many other EU countries show similar numbers.
This is the moment a far more serious effort should be made to help other countries. The Netherlands have already donated quite a few vaccines to third world countries that we have special relations with, but a lot more is possible. We still have some 740k Astra Zeneca doses that we will no longer use, and another 680k of the Jansssen vaccine, of which we will probably only use a small proportion. The Biontech Pfizer vaccine continues to come in at a rate of some 750k a week, and the Moderna vaccine at a rate of some 350k a week, but this will be even more later in the month. In short, by now we are receiving rather more than we are using. The BionTech/Pfizer vaccine is hard to handle, so not very useful for countries with an underdeveloped infrastructure, but the others can be donated quite easily. The government plans to donate a total of some 20 million during the rest of the year.