Europe 2021

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Europe July.????

Post by willem jongman »

Birth year 1999 now in the Netherlands.
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Europe July.????

Post by willem jongman »

I guess everyone here respects the NHS. The concern would be the security of the app and interoperability.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Europe July.????

Post by mjr »

willem jongman wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 1:39pm I guess everyone here respects the NHS. The concern would be the security of the app and interoperability.
Respect the NHS on healthcare, yes. NHS on data protection, not so much. Whoever the latest contractor to develop an app is, very little.

This should be simple: a statement of "X (passport nr Y) is fully vaccinated against covid from D until E" signed by an NHS certificate authority chain, verifiable with standard tools. I never underestimate the ability of gov.uk to brainfart, though!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
simonhill
Posts: 5211
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 11:28am
Location: Essex

Re: Europe July.????

Post by simonhill »

Of course, one of the ironies of all this is that we in the UK have "a world beating" vaccination program, but we have just extended our lockdown and are pretty much a pariah when it comes to foreign travel.

Seeing the laggards in Europe now opening up travel, one has to question how we have really done.

Incidentally, the vaccination program is almost universally lauded, which may be true for those working on the ground, but my experience of booking and being contacted was that it was an insecure shambles. There were a number of different ways that people were contacted: phone, letter; text; etc, with no previous indication of which one it would be for you.

I got a letter and told to book on the website. This was very hit and miss, with me initially being directed to sites "only 5 miles away" as long as you could swim. The Thames Estuary made the round trip over 80 miles with 2 toll bridge crossings. Nearest dry land one was 25 miles away. A bit annoying as my local mass vaccination centre was a mere 2 dry miles away. Trying later I had about 12 unsuccessful attempts to book as local places were offered but then on the final acceptance I was told these were no longer available. Another example of very poor programming.

One friend got a text from an unknown source. She reported it as a scam, but it turned out to be a nearby health practice with a meaningless name. I received a text message from a 'similar' NHS name to the one for my booking, which asked me to click on the link to submit my personal info. Obviously a scam, but it wasn't.

Once I'd got my second jab, all these hassles faded as I looked forward to being able to travel again. Now that also seems to be a false hope. Europe - July, which July?
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Europe July.????

Post by Jdsk »

Revision to EU classification of countries:

Albania, North Macedonia, Serbia, Lebanon, the US, Taiwan, Macau and Hong Kong will join Australia, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Rwanda, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand and China on a “white list”.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2021 ... ravel-list

Jonathan

PS: I think the official site is: https://reopen.europa.eu/en but that hasn't changed yet.
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Europe July.????

Post by willem jongman »

@Simon. All countries have experienced problems. The Dutch system had been planned on the assumption that AZ would be first and provide the bulk of the supply. Thus the logistics were planned around the system we have for flu vaccination by GPs. That did not happen because there was initial concern about the underrepresentation of older people in the trial. When that concern turned out to be unnecessary it was discovered that AZ did not deliver. So it had to be mostly Pfizer, a great vaccine but with logistical issues. However, the priority group of old and frail people in nursing homes could not travel to large vaccination centres and often had to wait for the easier Moderna vaccine of which we had never ordered many. And all the while special interest groups claimed priority.
Once all this was sorted and once Pfizer had started do deliver in massive quantities the system worked quite smoothly, even though temporarily shaken by concerns about the safety of the AZ vaccine. Since then, in part because Pfizer supplies have been utterly reliable, age group by age group people have received a letter to invite them to book a slot online or by phone. People had a choice of where to go, and if you wanted your shot within a few days you might have to travel a bit further, but never silly far. From what I understand actual demand was hard to predict. In my university town everyone wanted to be vaccinated, so people often have to go to vaccination sites in the villages. But all this is testimony to the eagerness to be vaccinated. Conversely uptake in deprived regions has been rather lower. Yet, during the last few weeks vaccinations have speeded up so much that the health minister now uses his twitter account to announce when the next birth year can book an appointment. Letters are still sent, but for these young people twitter is a much better medium. By this weekend the last 18 plus people will have been able to make an appointment for a first dose and a later one for a second.
So after initial confusion and logistical issues to get a scarce super cooled vaccine that comes in boxes with large quantities into the arms of immobile elderly people in nursing homes we now have a massive and pretty smoothly running campaign.
One pressing issue remains: registration in the national database. This will be important if you want an EU covid certificate. Uploads from the big vaccination centres have been unproblematic but early data from nursing homes were not always uploaded, and the same applies to some AZ jabs administered by GPs. That AZ is what we had and fortunately when I checked the data had been uploaded on the Monday after the Saturday we were vaccinated. Sadly the system gives upload date as your vaccination date rather than the actual vaccination date on your paper form. If the same happens after the second jab it may cost us a few days of our summer holiday. However, there are worse things to have happened in a pandemic.
Last edited by willem jongman on 16 Jun 2021, 9:17pm, edited 4 times in total.
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Europe July.????

Post by willem jongman »

I was incorrect: the administration of about 1 million cases has ended up in the pipeline, due to a computer problem and the rapid pace of vaccination. This should/will be cleared before 1 July, when people will need this information for their digital certificates. Other than that, things are progressing as smoothly as can be expected. In about three weeks time everyone over 18 will have had a chance to have a first dose, and close to half of the over 18s will have been fully vaccinated. The million dollar question will be how many will have opted out. Current estimates are only about 13%, but a few percentage points fewer would be better, of course.
ossie
Posts: 1793
Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 7:52pm

Re: Europe July.????

Post by ossie »

nsew wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 9:29am For some may I suggest sitting yourself down in the corner of a room and repeatedly slapping your face while repeating “I will not take my stupid little foreign holiday this year”.
Its a touring forum with a threat titled ' Europe July', unless you happened on here by mistake. I will certainly miss my stupid little foreign holiday this year, as I did last year and yes sadly I reckon the Delta variant will be the reason.

You sound like my missus. Do you partake in such stupidity per chance or has my irony meter malfunctioned. :wink:
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Europe July.????

Post by willem jongman »

Today it is for birth year cohort 2002 in the Netherlands to schedule an appointment. What the government will do next will be interesting: go down to the 12 year olds or first shorten the interval between the first and second jab from 6 weeks to 3 or 4. To be continued.
PaulaT
Posts: 218
Joined: 20 Dec 2018, 6:41pm
Location: Staffordshire

Re: Europe July.????

Post by PaulaT »

Meanwhile here in the UK 18 year olds are invited for vaccination from today. As of yesterday 80% of adults have had one vaccine and 58% two vaccines.

Things starting to look worrying Portugal where cases are rising fast driven by the Delta variant.
simonhill
Posts: 5211
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 11:28am
Location: Essex

Re: Europe July.????

Post by simonhill »

I reiterate - waves - plural.

Yes, I have been keeping an eye on Portugal, it's getting very close to being a 'Red' country. Same thing has been happening in other 'safe' countries. Sri Lanka and Thailand are 2 I also follow.

I wouldn't rule out a new wave hitting part of Europe, just as our wave goes into the trough stage. What we need is synchronicity.

Personally, I am waiting till late Sept early Oct before I head off and hoping that the waves will have flattened out by then. As to where, I have plans but no real idea of where I will be able to go.
wheelyhappy99
Posts: 232
Joined: 5 Jul 2020, 11:12am

Re: Europe July.????

Post by wheelyhappy99 »

I checked into this thread in the hope there might be useful new information not in the national news, and found some. I also found some remarkable posts.

There may be hordes of UK campers in the SW at present, though it's an open question as to whether that will be the case once travel finally opens up. Are they are there simply because for the second summer there's little chance of going further afield? Ryanair's CEO observed a few days ago that 'staycations are fine until you realise the weather's s**t', which is perhaps one of the reasons holidays to the Costas became the preferred choice for many decades ago. As for 'I don't care...', it's perhaps worth considering that after 18 months of this we should all have learned that until everyone (in the world) is safe none of us are safe, as the Delta/Indian variant has shown. More fundamentally, why do some contributors think it is okay to dismiss, denigrate or insult other people?

The information here about how EU countries are doing with vaccinations, steps to allow travel for those who can confirm their vaccination status and whether whatever the UK government decides to do will be accepted or compatible is helpful in making judgements about what might be possible for cycling holdays later this year, so thanks to all who have contributed positively.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Europe July.????

Post by mjr »

PaulaT wrote: 18 Jun 2021, 3:09pm Things starting to look worrying Portugal where cases are rising fast driven by the Delta variant.
It's almost like they were allowing tourists from a country that failed to get a grip on the delta variant, isn't it? I suspect other countries won't be as keen to make the same mistake.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
willem jongman
Posts: 2750
Joined: 7 Jan 2008, 4:16pm

Re: Europe July.????

Post by willem jongman »

It is birth year 2003 who can now schedule appointments in the Netherlands, including those who are not yet 18. Infections and hospital admissions are down again, and in my part of the country they are now so low (today 0.9 per 100000 in my town) that Germany allows those from this region in without restrictions. The Dutch goverment just announced an end to most restrictions - to me that is too early.
The British experience is worrysome: if such a high vaccination rate still does not prevent a surge in infections this is really a concern.
Last edited by willem jongman on 26 Jun 2021, 5:04pm, edited 1 time in total.
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Europe July.????

Post by Psamathe »

willem jongman wrote: 18 Jun 2021, 9:26pm ....The British experience is worrysome: if such a high vaccination rate still does not prevent a surge in infections this is really a concern.
Not just the UK but e.g. compare Israel vs Chile - despite comparable vaccination rates (also comparable with UK), Chile (mainly Santiago) is really suffering. Current reports
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/11/is-vaccinating-against-covid-enough-what-we-can-learn-from-other-countries[/url] wrote:Several reasons have been put forward for this unexpected jump [in Chile]: the spread of more virulent coronavirus strains from Brazil; increased numbers of Chileans travelling around the country; and reduced adherence to social distancing after the vaccination programme gave people a false sense of security.
If correct it would suggest that vaccination is not the one answer but a component of the answer. Political over-enthusiasm to discard measures that don't really restrict anybody is daft e.g. why end mask requirements (I don't like them but compared to pandemics "dislike" is irrelevant).

Ian
Post Reply