willem jongman wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 8:30pm
As of today 53% of the EU adult population is fully vaccinated, although there are big differences between countries.
Denmark is now, on ourworldindata figures, the first European country to give a vaccine to more people per capita than UK.
Netherlands close behind (I think likely a bit ahead, looks like weekly data only is reported)
willem jongman wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 9:46pm
"That's one thing we got right." The UK grabbed a larger slice of the pie whereas the EU produced a bigger (and better) pie. The EU continues to be a net exporter of vaccines, whereas the UK is a net importer. Sadly the UK has been less successful on the most important metric: mortality.
It was always likely there would be little difference in the end, and so it proves. Entering a third wave, UK and EU have very similar vaccination rates. Some EU countries will overtake Britain, some will remain behind.
The initial "vaccine wars" were about politics not public health.
Only seven months to catch up then ...That's one thing we got right.
We've got the highest case and death rate in Europe right now. You sure we got it right??
[In all seriousness, Denmark has played a blinder throughout, an object lesson in how to deal with this]
It must be refreshing to try and control a virus in a country with such a small population I guess. Similar population to Scotland, similar infection rate but much lower death rate. Like Germany it probably raises the question how exactly death rates are reported .
ossie wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 10:44pm
It must be refreshing to try and control a virus in a country with such a small population I guess.
If Boris had stuck with his original "let the bodies pile high" plan, we would have had a much smaller population!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
willem jongman wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 9:46pm
"That's one thing we got right." The UK grabbed a larger slice of the pie whereas the EU produced a bigger (and better) pie. The EU continues to be a net exporter of vaccines, whereas the UK is a net importer. Sadly the UK has been less successful on the most important metric: mortality.
There are 4 EU countries with a higher death rate than the UK and Spain, France and Portugal aren't that far behind.
Who exactly are you comparing us with ? The Netherlands doesn't represent the UK demographic wise in any way, shape or form despite your constant comparisons.
I would encourage you on your UK tours to visit some of our cities and then draw a comparison on how to deal with this problem. The diversity and poverty makes your country look like paradise. We have vast areas you would never visit, a populace who don't quite tow the line the same as yours. We also have extremely densely populated areas and deprivation that you probably couldn't comprehend.
To procure these vaccinations was fantastic, Its a shame that you've constantly offered up nothing but criticism on what is a UK forum. Please point me towards a NL forum where I can daily criticise everything from your Government, politics and your death rate.
I have to a agree with please point me to a NL forum where I can sit on the side lines and gloat at all the faults the NL has.
At the end of the day you could give us all a break and use a German forum.
Mods has this not got out of hand for a cycling for A cycling forum ?
To be clear, I have been just as scathing here of the madness of the recent Dutch government's lifting of restrictions and have documented the consequences in full view here.
One of those consequences is that much of the Netherlands is now dark red on the ECDC map. Other countries have quickly restricted travel from the Netherlands to documented fully vaccinated people. Those who are not have to face hurdles like a combination of quarantine and testing. In my view that is only fair, although very inconvenient for families with children in the 12-30 age group who are mostly not yet fully vaccinated. Our government has a lot to explain to them. Inside a few weeks we went from green to dark red on the map.
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Astrobike wrote: ↑23 Jul 2021, 12:02am
I have to a agree with please point me to a NL forum where I can sit on the side lines and gloat at all the faults the NL has.
At the end of the day you could give us all a break and use a German forum.
Mods has this not got out of hand for a cycling for A cycling forum ?
This thread has long since become yet another covid thread, and recovery is beyond me.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.” ― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
For international travel which is what this thread is about two things are important but should be distinguished: is there a real risk that I can be infected/ become seriously ill and is there a risk that I infect people in the country that I travel to? For both, vaccination is the big game changer and it is not for nothing that documented full vaccination is important, and will increasingly be demanded for international travel, but also for using public transport, museums, restaurants etc. The recent French legislation is a good example of where we are necessarily going and it is not a great imposition.
The bad news is that protection is not complete, not against getting infected and not against being infectious, and hence infection rates also matter. This means that you do not want to risk going to countries like Bulgaria or Rumania where there is much vaccine hesitancy and where the vaccination rate is dangerously low and to countries with a high rate of infection, even if, as in the UK, the vaccination rate is high. Conversely, even if you are fully vaccinated you may no longer be welcome abroad if you come from a country with a high infection rate, and particularly so if variants of concern are prevalent.
For now inside the EU the experts have decided that documented full vaccination is enough, but this may change. And increasingly that vaccination will have to be documented with the EU covid certificate. However, for now friends report that most customs or campsites still accept the yellow international paper vaccination booklet or other official documentation. Of course such tolerance will not last. Many EU countries also insist on face masks and hand desinfection in shops etc, and the 1.5 meter rule.
I was cycling with my daughter in Dutch Limburg and the North of Belgium a few days ago and rules were clearly applied strictly. And as a sign of how quickly things may change, when we returned to our Dutch campsite in the evening we discovered that during the day Belgium had tightened the rules with immediate effect and my not yet fully vaccinated daughter was no longer allowed in.
Last edited by willem jongman on 23 Jul 2021, 8:53am, edited 1 time in total.
Astrobike wrote: ↑23 Jul 2021, 12:02am
I have to a agree with please point me to a NL forum where I can sit on the side lines and gloat at all the faults the NL has.
At the end of the day you could give us all a break and use a German forum.
Mods has this not got out of hand for a cycling for A cycling forum ?
This thread has long since become yet another covid thread, and recovery is beyond me.
It has pretty much remained a thread about travelling in a time of Covid though?
Certainly less thread drift than some.
I think Willem's posts have been very interesting and informative.
He knows his subject and brings a view to us here in the UK that is somewhat restricted by certain factors.
His command of English is superb- unlike some!!
Thanks Willem
ossie wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 10:44pm
It must be refreshing to try and control a virus in a country with such a small population I guess.
And yet it's death rate is a quarter of neighbouring and similar Sweden.
ossie wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 10:44pm
Like Germany it probably raises the question how exactly death rates are reported .
Lol.
Any information not confirming to your prejudices must be dismissed.
Sweden has double the population of Denmark. They also notoriously resisted lockdown. I'd argue that you couldn't have picked two more different examples to compare. Finland on the other hand ?
In relation to Germany the recording of deaths has been discussed. Our learned Dutch friend added the following even though we digress further.
willem jongman wrote: ↑1 Jul 2021, 8:51am
The German mortality figures are indeed puzzling as they are also much higher than in the Netherlands where we have some 2-3 deaths per day on 17 million people, and sometimes none. Maybe they use a different definition of cause of death - it is not as if they have an inadequate health care system. In fact, they have a tradition of treating terminal patients intensively (and have a massive icu capacity) so many die in hospital, whereas in the Netherlands doctors accept the inevitable earlier and more people die at home and are, therefore, not necessarily registered as died from Covid.
[/quote
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PDQ Mobile wrote: ↑23 Jul 2021, 8:41amIt has pretty much remained a thread about travelling in a time of Covid though?
Certainly less thread drift than some.
And has repeatedly returned to the facts about the situation, which isn't always the case...
I don't see a problem with a thread about travel between countries during the outbreak including discussion of why differences in deaths, cases etc have occurred.
...That's one thing we got right.
