Europe 2021

[willem jongman]

It is not for nothing that Germany has banned travellers from the UK - sadly. Many other EU countries have now done the same. Similarly, I think the UK would do well do tighten rather than relax restrictions.

[francovendee]

I understand that UK travel policies is based around only permitting travel to those countries which voted for the UK in the Eurovision Song Contest.

[francovendee]

The VW Camper is ready like a coiled spring I have just applied for historic vehicle status which exempts you from paying VED. It has a new carburettor and fuel pump which almost doubles the fuel economy.
I miss read that and thought you'd written broken spring!.
What MPG do you hope to get, mid 20's.
I borrowed the van from work that your camper is based on and it barely got into the 20's. Mind you I used to drive it with a heavy right foot .

Al

[al_yrpal]

Franco, the new carb is a single Weber on the original air cooled SU engine. The original twin carbs were a nightmare. I used to get 16mpg, last checks I got from 25 to 28mpg. Its a great van though, noticeably bigger interior than subsequent modern versions. I am glad to say my fiancée loves it. On Friday we move to our next house built in 1780 so almost everything about us is totally vintage including us!

Al

[Tangled Metal]

I wouldn't say the delta variant is running rings around the vaccine as that's technically not true its got a high infection rate in areas of low vaccine take up.

Also, most cases of covid in the vaccinated happen soon after vaccination, first 19 days accounts for the greatest proportion of infections among the vaccinated. The report on the topic put that down to indicating infection is happening before the vaccine has had time to have an effect. I suppose until the vaccine has triggered enough antibody production to offer protection you're not much better than the unvaccinated.

Vaccination seems, by all reports I've read lately, to be having a positive effect. Whether we have enough protection among our population just yet to make overseas travel safe I am not convinced yet. There's the twin issues of taking a variant over to the continent or bringing one back. I just think it's still too early in any European country right now.

[mjr]

Just out of curiosity. Whether you can travel or not, is it still wise to travel when there's still a pandemic that's not being controlled or hasn't petered out?

How much extra risk is cautious slow land travel? I can understand limiting long distance air travel that can spread new variants far and fast, but bike and boat seems unlikely to do that.

Personally I see overseas holidays as an extravagance that's not a right at least for this year. What about you? I guess you don't think the same because you're all talking about July holidays on mainland Europe.

Not as extravagant if you live near the border. Talking about It doesn't mean we will all do it, either.

I suppose until the vaccine has triggered enough antibody production to offer protection you're not much better than the unvaccinated.

Possibly worse because some vaccination centres are poorly-ventilated town halls and see a steady stream of people, some of whom will be "demob-happy" and letting their guard down.

[willem jongman]

In the Netherlands it is now time for birth year 1987. Delta variant remains steady at 0.5% of all infections.
Tomorrow the Netherlands will also send the first 90k AZ doses to our former colony Surinam/Dutch Guyana (580k inhabitants), where the situation is dire. This will probably allow all 55+ people to be vaccinated, and maybe more. Additional doses will be sent quite soon. There is not enough refrigeration infrastructure to send mRNA vaccines. Dutch medical teams are already there.

[PDQ Mobile]

As long as the Indian/Delta variant is running rings round the vaccine in Britain, please do not come to Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... complacent

I don't think you post fair in that the people in the article were either only partially vaccinated- (just one dose, and only a few days prior, or not at all).

[Tangled Metal]

How much extra risk is cautious slow land travel? I can understand limiting long distance air travel that can spread new variants far and fast, but bike and boat seems unlikely to do that.

Not as extravagant if you live near the border. Talking about It doesn't mean we will all do it, either.

Possibly worse because some vaccination centres are poorly-ventilated town halls and see a steady stream of people, some of whom will be "demob-happy" and letting their guard down.

Snipped so it's not long lines of quotes.

Touring isn't just cautious, slow land travel though is it? It's shopping for food, often staying in campsites/ hostels/ hotels/ other accommodation, meeting / interacting with people. It's often busy ferries, trains or planes for UK residents. Trains perhaps for mainland residents. There's hardly the isolation your first comment seems to paint.

Hopping over the border and back is a day ride, if you're touring I'm guessing that's multi day and more than just popping to the next village which just happens to be over the nearby border. You're right talking and doing are not the same but talking could lead to doing and discussing risks could be deemed worthwhile. Avoiding that aspect of the discussion because you're not actually doing it is a bit of a poor argument because others might actually be planning on doing it.

Vaccination Centre I went to was the town hall but it was managed. By providing medical grade masks,; repeated use of hand sanitiser; a lot of distancing such as every junction, door, stairs, etc had a staff holding the next person back until the previous person had moved to the next pause location; etc. Plus not many people there. Time slots meant hardly anyone was actually in there and I was door to door in 5 minutes. I'd spend a lot more finding things in a Belgium supermarket on tour that's for sure. Possibility less risk mitigation in the supermarket too.

Whether anyone tours or not is their choice under the rules that apply when they're doing it or not. Discussing the wisdom of touring is worth doing right now. A foreign holiday is for many luxury but if such a luxury causes a surge in the virus, possibly due to a new variant, then it's certainly a luxury too far in my view.

We're not at the point of control yet. Until the world gets higher levels of vaccination everywhere variants will appear. Early variants came from Western or developed countries. Later they came from what used to be called developing countries. This connected world is helping the virus mutate to survive. At what point will the mutation cause the vaccines to fail? This might be doom and gloom but we're helping it more by spreading ourselves around than reducing our movements I reckon.

[Psamathe]

What has happened is tragic (crocodile attack) but reading the report really made me wonder about how wise it is travelling the world, starting shortly after the pandemic started and continuing through all these lockdowns, waves, etc.

...
The sisters had been backpacking around the world since March this year
...

Ian

[simonhill]

We're not at the point of control yet. Until the world gets higher levels of vaccination everywhere variants will appear. Early variants came from Western or developed countries. Later they came from what used to be called developing countries. This connected world is helping the virus mutate to survive. At what point will the mutation cause the vaccines to fail? This might be doom and gloom but we're helping it more by spreading ourselves around than reducing our movements I reckon.

When will be at "a point of control"?

Obviously (almost) nobody wants to be reckless, but the cautious will always say - we need to get it under control a bit more. I'm already seeing people who are finding it hard to give up the shielding habit. There has to be a time when we say 'lets go', but it is unlikely that at that time will be 100% risk free, which some people seem to want.

Apart from a quick foray into France for the 2018 & 19 summers, I don't normally start my serious overseas touring till the end of September. Then I go for months and so a quarantine period on return is not a big deal. Will the over-cautious be saying don't go or will the reckless be saying 'what the heck'. I wait with baited breath to see.how things have moved on by then.

[Psamathe]

We're not at the point of control yet. Until the world gets higher levels of vaccination everywhere variants will appear. Early variants came from Western or developed countries. Later they came from what used to be called developing countries. This connected world is helping the virus mutate to survive. At what point will the mutation cause the vaccines to fail? This might be doom and gloom but we're helping it more by spreading ourselves around than reducing our movements I reckon.

When will be at "a point of control"?
....

I think it will be a combination of factors; vaccination but also all countries getting infection numbers down so we don't keep creating these new variants. More virus means more variants and whilst low infection numbers wont stop variants it could dramatically reduce the numbers cropping-up. That said it's just my theory and where vaccination is not so effective against some variants that also applies selective pressure on new variants that are even better at evading immunity (just like stopping a course of antibiotics early can increase the risk of resistance).

Trouble is it only takes one country (e.g. with a leader in virus denial or with limited infrastructure) and ... new variant of concern.

Ian

[Tangled Metal]

I did hear an expert in the field explain that it's partly probability. You give a virus more people to infect there's more chance of mutations that work better for the virus and the resulting variant takes over as the main one affecting people.

The idea is reducing as much as possible the numbers getting the virus is the most important to reducing this chance of a successful virus mutation. It is hoped that through vaccination and other methods eventually the probability is reduced so much the infection rate drops enough that the probability of dangerous mutation is negligible. Then it's the new normal and we get our freedoms back within whatever the new normal is.

If you think it's at that point now then we'll differ on that.

[willem jongman]

We are clearly not yet there, but equally this may not take that much longer either, at least for some countries or regions. Other than continuing with the general vaccination drive, we need to focus on cluster of low vaccination rates. So I was surprised to see that the contrations in the UK of the delta variant do not get more targeted attention. But in the UK it may well be too late for that already.

[mattheus]

We are clearly not yet there, but equally this may not take that much longer either, at least for some countries or regions. Other than continuing with the general vaccination drive, we need to focus on cluster of low vaccination rates. So I was surprised to see that the contrations in the UK of the delta variant do not get more targeted attention. But in the UK it may well be too late for that already.

Willem, if you google you will find there was a lot of controversy over increasing the vac supplies to the UK outbreak areas in the NW. It was hard to follow, but I think local NHS wanted more supplies, but the central authority refused it on flimsy ground, related to a low uptake from the locals I think.

Bit of a sad mess