Europe 2021

[PDQ Mobile]

The BBC live Covid feed is just reporting that France will allow fully vaccinated people to enter from the UK.
Detail is sketchy though.

Ps.
From Guardian web page.
""France is making itself available as a destination for international tourists who have had coronavirus jabs.

The government has announced that it is removing the need for coronavirus tests for vaccinated Europeans and also allowing vaccinated tourists from most of the rest of the world, including the US, to visit, provided they have a negative test.

Associated Press report that the relaxed rules will kick in from Wednesday. Tourism will not be possible, however, from countries with virus surges and or prevalent variants. This “red list” for the moment has 16 countries, including India, South Africa and Brazil.

Outside of Europe, most of the rest of the world is classed as “orange” in the new travel rulebook released today.

Vaccinated visitors from “orange” countries — including the US and Britain — will no longer need to quarantine on arrival and will no longer have to justify the reasons for their trip to France. They will, however, still be asked for a negative PCR test no older than 72 hours or a negative antigenic test of no more than 48 hours.

Unvaccinated children will be allowed in with vaccinated adults.

European visitors and those from seven countries classed as “green” — Australia, South Korea, Israel, Japan, Lebanon, New Zealand and Singapore — will no longer need to undergo testing if they are vaccinated.""

[willem jongman]

Here in the Netherlands things continue to improve: 1600 infections for a population of 17 million. In my town it is down to 6.9 a day per 100k inhabitants. In the whole country there were 51 new covid hospital admissions yesterday, and 5 for intensive care. This, of course, is all down to vaccination. We have started vaccination of birth year cohort 1984, - total number of doses administered is now 10.45 million, mostly still only first doses, for 13 million over 18s. So we are getting there, and we really have to, because after the recent relaxations all discipline seems to have gone. I was drinking outside at a bar yesterday, and behaviour was a bit troubling.

[pq]

pq, I think you're right regarding rural v town.
I too live in the countrysideand about half a dozen family's names are very predominant.
Our local farmer, a member of one of the largest families, may have been anti vaccine but the whole family caught it hence he didn't get a chance to decline. He told me he felt a bit poorly for a few days but still looked after his farm. His brother was much worse and was still in hospital when we last spoke.
I read somewhere that reluctance to take up the vaccine was mostly in the under 25's. Also a lot of country people are wary but haven't decided one way or the other.
It is a personal choice but I took the opportunity and had my first in Feb.

Yes, it is a personal choice but that in itself is problematic if your personal choice harms others. There are lots of things we don't have the freedom to do. I can't drive through my village at 90mph becasue that would be dangerous for others, you can make a similar argument about getting vaccinated - and in any case all sorts of vaccines are, in effect, compulsory for kids already. My sense is that the people here who object will crumble if their stance becomes inconvenient to them. I've heard people say endlessly that they don't need to be vaccinated becasue everyone else is having it - the truly hardcore are few and far between. So unfortunately I think we need a vaccine passport here, without which you can't go into public indoor spaces. Put that in place and I think we'll reach herd immunity.

[willem jongman]

I agree with the moral argument about the limits to personal freedom. So I am strongly in favour of a Green certificate that carries enough advantages to persuade the free riders.

[francovendee]

I have always felt a vaccine passport was a good idea.
This way you can exercise personal choice and opt not to be vaccinated but expect to be barred from some places. This may tip the balance and some doubters will have it done.
Not much hope that the passionate anti-vaccers will change their views though.

[willem jongman]

No the passionate ones will not change but most are not that passionate. They are vaguely sceptic, fuelled by online misinformation and their inability to understand the mathematics of risk. My hunch is ar least half of them can be persuaded by tangible benefits of a green certificate.

[simonhill]

Just heard on UK Radio 4 News that dating apps will now show a sticker if you have been vaccinated. It said it was done in conjunction with the Govt.

So HMG can sort out Tinder, but not an international travel scheme.

[willem jongman]

They want you to date British people rather than foreigners. Just imagine you might fall in love with a foreigner.

[colin54]

They want you to date British people rather than foreigners. Just imagine you might fall in love with a foreigner.

Very droll Willem

[mjr]

So HMG can sort out Tinder, but not an international travel scheme.

Just goes to show which Boris uses more, eh?

[willem jongman]

Today in the Netherlands it is the turn of birth year cohort 1986.

[Psamathe]

I have always felt a vaccine passport was a good idea.
This way you can exercise personal choice and opt not to be vaccinated but expect to be barred from some places. This may tip the balance and some doubters will have it done.
Not much hope that the passionate anti-vaccers will change their views though.

I think the name "vaccine passport" is one of the main aspects causing a problem. If it were called e.g. 'Immunity Certificate" or "Covid Status Certificate" and allowed certification from antibody or t-cell test results or PCR test results. The name suggests the requirement for vaccination (which starts the anti-vaxers and the "freedom of choice" arguments). But a better/broader name for the same thing highlights that vaccination is a choice and there are alternatives and it's about a good indication of lower risk of carrying of succumbing to Covid.

Ian

[willem jongman]

True, although for most people vaccination is the only convenient way to get a Green certificate or similar. So the travel etc benefits could well be a real benefit for those on the fence. At least, that is what I hope.
In the meantime I just checked my vaccination status in our national database in the Netherlands, and my first jab was indeed recorded. Unfortunately the date was the date it was actually recorded rather than administered, and that was three days later. For such a complex administrative thing that is absolutely fine of course, but if the same will happen after my second jab on 3 July it means I cannot use my Green Certificate from Saturday 17 July ( the EU certificate wil demand 14 days after the second jab) but from, perhaps, Tuesday 20 July. We had been planning to drive to France or Italy on Saturday 17 July for a bike tour. We shall see.

[Tangled Metal]

Just out of curiosity. Whether you can travel or not, is it still wise to travel when there's still a pandemic that's not being controlled or hasn't petered out?

Devil's advocate here, travel has so many positives it has obvious been benefits to the traveller and perhaps those he/she/They meet. However vaccination is still ongoing in the UK and around the world. Plus variants of concern are being found too. Plus vaccination doesn't stop you getting the virus and ending up in hospital. Plus long covid too. How strong is the argument for opening up borders in light of these and many other factors? Aren't we still best just limiting overseas travel to essential only? At least until we know come winter or next year whether vaccination is truly effective long term?

Personally I see overseas holidays as an extravagance that's not a right at least for this year. What about you? I guess you don't think the same because you're all talking about July holidays on mainland Europe.

[willem jongman]

It is not as if staying at home is completely safe either, of course. However, once vaccinated you are pretty well protected. Also, even though right now there are still quite a few infections, it is clear that vaccination numbers are going up rapidly and infection numbers are plummeting all over Europe. So, give it another month or so, and we will be in a different world, I believe. By early July everyone over 18 in the Netherlands can have had a first dose, and everyone over 55 or so a second one. And this is not just the Netherlands, but almost everywhere. Variants remain an issue, of course, and hence Brits may find that they cannot travel. Also, I would not travel anywhere outside of Europe or the US/Canada.