CTC Holidays and Tours to Cease Trading

[simonhill]

This was posted in the "what are CUK doing for us "long running thread, but risks being buried. CTC Tours are often mention throughout this forum so I thought I would raise this as a new topic.

Presumably sad news for all those who have enjoyed CTC Tours and often sung their praises.

Quote:
"The Directors of CTC Cycling Holidays & Tours Ltd and the Cycling UK Board sadly announce that after 20 years and hundreds of tours across the globe, Cycling UK’s subsidiary trading arm, CTC Cycling Holidays & Tours Ltd (CTC H&T) will cease trading in October 2021. CTC H&T will be honouring holiday bookings already made and will run the remaining tours this season where the minimum participant levels have been reached."

https://www.cyclingholidays.org/announcement/

[Bogawski]

It is sad news indeed, I've been on 4 and all most enjoyable, good leaders and good company. What does Cycling UK do for me? Insurance and a magazine which has gone downhill IMHO. so not a lot.

[tatanab]

announce that after 20 years and hundreds of tours across the globe, Cycling UK’s subsidiary trading arm, CTC Cycling Holidays & Tours Ltd (CTC H&T) will cease trading in October 2021

Before that the tours were organised by members for members with little input from HQ I imagine. These were days of innocence before insurance, liability, money protection etc came into play. I very much doubt it could happen the same way these days. Notably, people's expectations have changed about level of support and accommodation - prebooked hotels and route sheets for example. My first CTC group tour was in 1974 when things were very different and very much more basic.

[Chris Jeggo]

I received an email from a well known CTC Tour Manager in December saying that "the CTC Holiday Company has fundamentally changed how Tour Managers organise holidays. A lot of existing Tour Managers do not like it ..."

So they set up a co-operative enterprise called 'Bikexplore' - https://www.bikexplore.co.uk/. "Bikexplore comprises ten of CTC Holidays’ most popular and prolific Tour Managers." Take a look at their website.

So was it really COVID that is responsible for the premature demise of CTC Holidays, or was it a hamfisted CUK Board that got up the noses of some of their best tour leaders?

So the Cyclists' Touring Club can no longer organise Cycle Tours. Why do the words "pi*s-up" and "brewery" keep forcing themselves to the forefront of my consciousness?

[brianleach]

So they set up a co-operative enterprise called 'Bikexplore' - https://www.bikexplore.co.uk/. "Bikexplore comprises ten of CTC Holidays’ most popular and prolific Tour Managers." Take a look at their website

In addition there is also www.cyclingtouring.org which was set up at the time the name was changed as I recall. It is not quite the same but is really just "members" combining together rather in the manner of the early CTC I would think.

Of course this is the first year of the full price for old codgers fee structure and if it weren't for our local group rides which require member ship I do not think I would renew as I believe British Cycling also has insurance but I may be wrong.

[al_yrpal]

So the Cyclists' Touring Club can no longer organise Cycle Tours. Why do the words "pi*s-up" and "brewery" keep forcing themselves to the forefront of my consciousness?

QED! Whilst Cycling UK is keen to get more folks on bikes, but in that case the virus is doing a far better job...

Al

[GPC]

So the Cyclists' Touring Club can no longer organise Cycle Tours. Why do the words "pi*s-up" and "brewery" keep forcing themselves to the forefront of my consciousness?

QED! Whilst Cycling UK is keen to get more folks on bikes, but in that case the virus is doing a far better job...

Al

I don't know, why do the words micturate up and Brewery keep forcing themselves into your consciousness?

As well as killing thousands, the pandemic has done for a lot a businesses, it's unlikely anybody associated with the company took this decision lightly and it's a terrible shame. But the holiday business served only a bit over 1000 of a membership of 71k, it probably won't be missed by most members. It's a real shame, but doesn't stop anybody touring with dozens of other companies out there many run by former members of CTCH&T, who cut their tour leading teeth with our club.

Why folks come on this forum just to knock Cycling UK baffles me.

[Psamathe]

Does anybody know if the company was a net contributor to CTC funds or a net drain?

Also, were the holidays open to all and/or subsidised for members? - just wondering if it could have been seen as a membership benefit in the Gift Aid eligibility and maybe the new chef is looking to try and restore Gift Aid eligibility?

Whilst one can appreciate that both this and last summers would have been something of a disaster, maybe CTC see overseas travel as being constrained for next year? (in which case prospects seen as bleak longer term).

Ian

[CJ]

Does anybody know if the company was a net contributor to CTC funds or a net drain?

CTC Holidays were a substantial contributor, as a scrutinly of the audited CTC accounts will reveal. All profits were gifted to CTC, apart from those funds necessarily retained by the Holiday Company, to underwrite insurances and pay for improvements - such as the new website. Kevin Mayne (and subsequent tourist belittling bosses) made sure that CTC Holidays received NO special favours and paid top dollar for any service it might chose to buy from its owner. So expensive was the price we were quoted for a four-page spread in Cycle, that for many years CTC Holidays instead mailed a brocure with Cycling Plus! More recently the Holiday Company has paid handsomely to have some work done by the HQ accounts department, thus helping to pay for CTC's national office, rather than vice versa.

The ONLY thing CTC ever did to help the Tours was to act as guarantor of last resort, which helped the Company get better rates for insurance and bonding arrangements. These funds the Holiday Company has gradually replaced out of retained profits, such that CTC, upon winding up CTC Holidays, will rake in an estimated windfall of some £400,000!

Some of us suspect that this was the plan all along.

1. Impose a new deal on the Leaders without consulting stakeholders, that demotes them from self-employed franchisees to mere volunteers.
2. This new 'Volunteer Model' requires more paid staff to operate and oversee.
3. Several leaders leave, especially those able to go it alone because their tours are most popular, resulting in a smaller programme. And, since leaders no longer have any incentive to take more than the minimum number per tour, the anticipated increased contribution per tour does not materialise.
4. Reduced turnover from tours that at best merely break even, cannot pay the increased overheads, so the business begins to eat its reserves.
5. The owner, ie. CTC, winds the business up while there's still tidy sum in retained profits left to take.

We'd got to step 3 already. Covid merely hastened steps 4 & 5.

Also, were the holidays open to all and/or subsidised for members?

NOT subsidised, but yes, one was supposed to be a member to go on a tour. This requirement was made by Leaders out of (an apparently misplaced and unappreciated) loyalty to CTC, rather than any good reason. It was said to be about third party cover, but travel insurance usually has enough of that. And it was waived in some circumstances, eg if a member of another ECF-supporting organisation, in the days when CTC was a supporter that is. More to the point: CTC didn't provide any system to check if participants really were members, or had simply jotted down some plausible-looking (perhaps expired) number. Even when the Holiday Company invested in a new computerised website booking system, CTC was too mean and short-sighted to pay for a link to their membership database that would have verified those numbers and enabled us to promote and sell membership as part of the holiday package. Or was trash it and asset-strip already the long-term plan?

[chris_suffolk]

Not been on a CTC tour, and doesn't look like I'll get the chance now.

It's interesting that a number of responses above mention that one of the main reasons for joining the CTC is for insurance. Do these people not have household insurance, which (in all cases I've seen) covers liability insurance for the whole household? Just wondering why the CTC insurance is so much better than the cover I get effectively for free, as I'm going to buy household insurance anyway.

[Psamathe]

Not been on a CTC tour, and doesn't look like I'll get the chance now.

It's interesting that a number of responses above mention that one of the main reasons for joining the CTC is for insurance. Do these people not have household insurance, which (in all cases I've seen) covers liability insurance for the whole household? Just wondering why the CTC insurance is so much better than the cover I get effectively for free, as I'm going to buy household insurance anyway.

I've always ben told that if you make a claim for something and are covered by more than one policy then things get more complex as the claim would be split across companies you have cover under. I've been told that this makes things more complex and might mean you suffer 2 (or more) excesses.

So if you are automatically covered under your house policy and automatically covered under your CTC membership you in effect are covered under two policies ...

But I'm no insurance expert and have never had to make such a claim (i.e. when incident covered by more than one policy) - so just repeating what I've been told (do feel free to correct me if this is untrue/wrong).

Ian

[PH]

I've always ben told that if you make a claim for something and are covered by more than one policy then things get more complex as the claim would be split across companies you have cover under. I've been told that this makes things more complex and might mean you suffer 2 (or more) excesses.
Ian

We're talking about Third Party insurance, there is no excess, no no claims bonus to lose, no down side to being double insured.

[PH]

Just wondering why the CTC insurance is so much better than the cover I get effectively for free, as I'm going to buy household insurance anyway.

A better reason, one you might be unfortunate enough to benefit from, is the personal injury conditional agreement. Usually the success fee paid to the solicitor out of your compensation is up to 25% (For smaller claims it isn't usually less), so a £5,000 settlement could cost you 26 years subscription. CUK and BC (Possibly others, but not usually household legal cover) have agreements where this isn't taken.

[chris_suffolk]

Just wondering why the CTC insurance is so much better than the cover I get effectively for free, as I'm going to buy household insurance anyway.

A better reason, one you might be unfortunate enough to benefit from, is the personal injury conditional agreement. Usually the success fee paid to the solicitor out of your compensation is up to 25% (For smaller claims it isn't usually less), so a £5,000 settlement could cost you 26 years subscription. CUK and BC (Possibly others, but not usually household legal cover) have agreements where this isn't taken.

Legal Cover (which I would consider essential) on a household policy will be at no cost in terms of a %. That's why you pay an additional up front cost to cover it. Do you know a household policy that takes a % of the final amount?

[PH]

Back on topic. I don't get it, I thought CTC Holidays were a long term source of income, I haven't been back to check but recall seeing some healthy figures in past accounts, this decision seem to be short sighted. I wasn't aware of the changes that had already taken place, I did notice the Pilbeams had been advertising in Cycle
https://www.cyclingwithus.org.uk/
I've never been on any organised tour except those done by the local MG, they don't appeal to me and they're mostly out of my budget, or I can make the same budget go further. I know quite a few who have been on them and their experiences have mostly been positive. I also know some tour leaders and they certainly know their stuff, I hope they continue (Well I know they will)
Something not mentioned is the Birthday Rides, were these not a part of CTC Holidays?