chris_suffolk wrote: ↑2 Jul 2021, 8:09pm
Legal Cover (which I would consider essential) on a household policy will be at no cost in terms of a %. That's why you pay an additional up front cost to cover it. Do you know a household policy that takes a % of the final amount?
I think we're talking about different things, I'm referring to when you have a claim against someone else, in this case specifically in relation to a cycling accident. The ATE insurance you can take out at the start of a claim is to protect yourself against paying the other parties costs if you lose. You could read here for starters, but as it has nothing to do with CTC Holidays, maybe you'll start another thread if you still don't accept what I've stated https://hsfnotes.com/litigation/jackson ... insurance/
Don’t mention the Birthday Rides . Yes they became part of CTC holidays the start of their demise.
Great memories my first were at Malton. Lots of cyclists and wonderful tea stops.
Sad memories the last I attended, independently, at Penrith. I stayed at the IH Wayfarers as the holiday cost was out of my budget. I couldn’t even say they were a shadow of their former self. More like a skeleton and nothing to make me want more.
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life
'The ONLY thing CTC ever did to help the Tours was to act as guarantor of last resort, which helped the Company get better rates for insurance and bonding arrangements. These funds the Holiday Company has gradually replaced out of retained profits, such that CTC, upon winding up CTC Holidays, will rake in an estimated windfall of some £400,000!'
That's not entirely true, as CTC and later Cycling UK also offered a ready made audience for tours, via advertising in the magazine and website to a select audience and wider that was worth a lot of money.
chris_suffolk wrote: ↑2 Jul 2021, 5:43pm
Not been on a CTC tour, and doesn't look like I'll get the chance now.
It's interesting that a number of responses above mention that one of the main reasons for joining the CTC is for insurance. Do these people not have household insurance, which (in all cases I've seen) covers liability insurance for the whole household? Just wondering why the CTC insurance is so much better than the cover I get effectively for free, as I'm going to buy household insurance anyway.
Does your household insurance cover you for driving a car and potentially injuring a 3rd party or do you need separate car 3rd party cover? If not, it may not cover you for doing the same on a bicycle away from your home.
chris_suffolk wrote: ↑2 Jul 2021, 5:43pm
Not been on a CTC tour, and doesn't look like I'll get the chance now.
It's interesting that a number of responses above mention that one of the main reasons for joining the CTC is for insurance. Do these people not have household insurance, which (in all cases I've seen) covers liability insurance for the whole household? Just wondering why the CTC insurance is so much better than the cover I get effectively for free, as I'm going to buy household insurance anyway.
Does your household insurance cover you for driving a car and potentially injuring a 3rd party or do you need separate car 3rd party cover? If not, it may not cover you for doing the same on a bicycle away from your home.
Cars and bikes are fundamentally different, and insurance works differently for them too. Most household insuarance covers third party liability, and thus covers damage caused whilst riding a bike - well at least all the ones' I've ever had do.
chris_suffolk wrote: ↑2 Jul 2021, 8:09pm
Legal Cover (which I would consider essential) on a household policy will be at no cost in terms of a %. That's why you pay an additional up front cost to cover it. Do you know a household policy that takes a % of the final amount?
I think we're talking about different things, I'm referring to when you have a claim against someone else, in this case specifically in relation to a cycling accident. The ATE insurance you can take out at the start of a claim is to protect yourself against paying the other parties costs if you lose. You could read here for starters, but as it has nothing to do with CTC Holidays, maybe you'll start another thread if you still don't accept what I've stated https://hsfnotes.com/litigation/jackson ... insurance/
It's not a question of accepting, or otherwise, what you are saying. I was initially responding to the many people that were saying that the CTC did little for them except provide insurance - which incidentally also has nothing to do with CTC holidays, so perhaps they should all start a seperate thread too.
GPC wrote: ↑2 Jul 2021, 9:28pm
Does your household insurance cover you for driving a car and potentially injuring a 3rd party or do you need separate car 3rd party cover? If not, it may not cover you for doing the same on a bicycle away from your home.
Household insurance policies do not and cannot provide insurance cover for driving a car and causing an injury. Standard household contents insurance policies all provide liability cover for the occupier and family living with them, and that would include riding a bicycle. The definition of bicycle in the policy wording might require the bicycle to be foot propelled, so riding an e-bike might not be covered.
It is rare that dual insurance would cause the person insured any problem. At worst the two insurers would probably come to agreement about the handling of the claim between themselves or they would apply a standard industry agreeement for such situations. Sometimes a general rule or policy condition will apply that the more specific insurance cover will deal with the claim.
IMO, discussions such as this drift from CTC Holidays, tend to illustrate a certain lack of knowledge about the complications of insurance and what might be termed "legal aid." I've not checked recently, but I've never seen anything from the CTC or more recently CUk that explains it.
"In 2020 we completed a refresh of our operating model to reinforce the support we provide to our Tour Managers and therefore to you our customers. Covid 19 made this restructure timely and we have been able to launch our competitively priced holidays with renewed confidence, maintaining the best of the old whilst embracing the demands of the new. We look forward to welcoming you soon."
(My emphasis). In fact so 'confident' that they are now ceasing trading.
thirdcrank wrote: ↑2 Jul 2021, 10:24pm
IMO, discussions such as this drift from CTC Holidays, tend to illustrate a certain lack of knowledge about the complications of insurance and what might be termed "legal aid." I've not checked recently, but I've never seen anything from the CTC or more recently CUk that explains it.
It probably took less time to find than it did for you to type that
I've never been on a CTC tour, but have seen the adverts in Cycle and looked at some of the specs for different tours. I have always been ambivalent about them.
On the plus side, I welcome any company that offers bike touring trips. Many people don't want to organise or go on their own so it is a useful asset for them.
On the downside it was the cost. I don't know about UK or Europe, but I have taken a vague interest in the further afield tours. What struck me most was how expensive they were for tours in very cheap countries. As an example, I did a number of 3 months tours in S Asia in the late 90s early 20s so I was pretty well aware of the cost of touring there. In 2004 I saw a 17 day CTC tour of Kerala and Tamil Nadu (including airfare but not spending) for about £1700. At that time I was doing a 3 month tour that cost a fair bit less (c£1400), including everything. I couldn't see how they could justify such a high price for only 17 days, even if they upped the hotel quality and laid on a sag wagon - both of which are very cheap in India. It was later explained that they had lots of overheads eg insurance, ABTA, etc., but nonetheless it still seemed inordinately expensive to me.
I realise that some people want everything organised and are prepared to pay for it, but my concern was that this was advertised as a club trip, organised for club members and so you would expect club prices, not commercial ones. I also seem to remember that when Cycle did an member's article on a DiY tour they didn't show the overall cost. Maybe the price of a coffee or some other whimsical thing would be highlighted, but not the full price. I suspected that this was to protect their expensive tours. Probably many people still don't realise how cheap it can be to tour in far flung lands.
It is sad to see the CTC Tours go, but folks, it ain't difficult to go on your own. This forum is a fantastic resource and can be used to gain knowledge and build confidence, although people are often guilty of overcomplicating things (required on-going maintenance; specialist bike or gear; language problems; training; daily distance; speed; etc.). It often amazes me how much some people can make out of the simple process of getting on a bike and pedalling a bit.
simonhill wrote: ↑3 Jul 2021, 11:41amIt is sad to see the CTC Tours go, but folks, it ain't difficult to go on your own. This forum is a fantastic resource and can be used to gain knowledge and build confidence, although people are often guilty of overcomplicating things (required on-going maintenance; specialist bike or gear; language problems; training; daily distance; speed; etc.). It often amazes me how much some people can make out of the simple process of getting on a bike and pedalling a bit.
: - )
We're often asked about how we manage tours, with a general air of how strange we are and how difficult it must be. I think that you're right. The tricky bit is being in the right frame of mind to get up each day and enjoy riding.
Jonathan
PS: Looking forward to more about your exotic tours when the time is right.
simonhill wrote: ↑3 Jul 2021, 11:41am
It is sad to see the CTC Tours go...
Agree with your post and the sentiment that 'CTC' holidays will sadly no longer exist. However, reading the full statement on the cycling holidays website linked to in the OP suggests that the holiday company is being wound up but CUK will partner up with 3rd parties to offer cycle holidays. Perhaps these partners will be tour leaders of old that went independent that CJ mentioned???
