Extremely low gears

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simonineaston
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by simonineaston »

One simple way to get lower gears to to have smaller wheels. My folder has a lowest gear around 15" but at no time on my tour did I wish I was on it - the bigger bike carried the load safely and well.
I'm a serial user of small wheeled bikes and also not physically strong. I long ago came to the conclusion that the lowest gear that was practical was 19", at least for me. The reason, as has been alluded to upthread, is as much to do with my ability to retain balance when twiddling up whatever the hill.
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rotavator
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by rotavator »

AliK wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:09pm Please can somebody clarify why balance may be a problem as presumably it isn't when these 50/52T are used on mountain bikes? or is it?

Or for that matter on a bike with a Rohloff hub (if I've understood various articles correctly)?

I would have thought balance would be easier based on the logic that at the moment if I go one or two gears up from my lowest gear it is then much harder to balance. ie my balance gets worse the higher the gear is. Or am I not understanding exactly what people are meaning by balance??
1. On a MTB with 1x gearing, 34T chainring, a 50T sprocket and a 29" dia wheel, bottom gear would be ~20 GI, i.e. slightly higher than some touring cyclists would propose, myself included.
2. With a Rohloff hub low gears are easily obtained by choosing the right combination of chainring and sprocket. However, after experimenting, I have found that a bottom gear of 17-18 GI is about as low as I want to go. With a lower gear I find it hard to maintain a straight line which is not a good thing on a busy road. With a heavy load on board there might also be a tendency to keel over or lose ones balance. I would rather get off and walk up really steep hills; I count it as a blessed relief rather than an admission of defeat!
wirral_cyclist
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by wirral_cyclist »

Hi

I'm a very, very poor climber and I wouldn't go any lower than you've got, much lower and you won't be able to balance as your forward speed will be too low, I can balance at 2mph but not many people can. With low gears and a rear load on a steep hill you'll be in danger of popping wheelies, also restarting in a very low gear is very difficult.
Could you pack lighter?
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andrew_s
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by andrew_s »

AliK wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:09pm Please can somebody clarify why balance may be a problem as presumably it isn't when these 50/52T are used on mountain bikes? or is it?

Or for that matter on a bike with a Rohloff hub (if I've understood various articles correctly)?
50 or 52T cassettes are used on mountain bikes with single chainrings, usually around 34T, giving gears from around 18" to 84" (with 11T small sprocket). Rohloffs are also used with a single chainring that gives a similar gear range (usually 20-100" in on-road use).
Since the low gear is similar to yours, they don't have any more balance problems than you.

If you were to use 22x50, your riding speed would be around 2 mph, which is in slow bicycle race territory.
I have found a low of around 17" useful, but that was for short bits of steep & lumpy track, rather than making a long hill easier.

Mountain bikes have gone 1x mostly because getting rid of the front mech, and the requirement to keep its attachment point clear, allows unobstructed use of the BB area for fancy rear suspension systems. They come up with all sorts of other justifications, but that's the real reason.

[beaten to it :( ]
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horizon
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by horizon »

Tiggertoo wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:26pm "my daily mileages were very low, usually about 25 - 30 miles."

Okay, I see now, rather like the tortoise which is quite happy with its load. :roll:

My daily mileage bikepacking is more in the hundred mile range, and it would ride me crazy to lumber along as if I was just going to the shops. If ever I am on the road and I see a ponderous vision on two wheels ahead, I will know it is probably horizon and give a cheery wave - but sorry to admit, not accompanied by any offer of assistance. :D
There were two reasons for the low mileage: one was camping, as in "real" camping and using all the gear and enjoying sitting around in the sunshine. I do move on most days when cycle camping but I'm still "camping" as much as "cycling" and I'm taking in the scenery and the sights. The other reason is the slow speed on the hills on which it would be impossible (at least for me) to maintain the speed needed for high mileages, especially obviously if walking up. But 30 mpd is definitely at the lower end of what is possible and this was Devon after all! Lincolnshire last year was a very different proposition.

But on moderate hills, on the flat and on downhills, the speed is amazing: you don't feel ponderous at all. And on really long downhills (like on the old A30 from Tedburn to Exeter), the weight is rocketing you along. Hare and tortoise do come to mind but it's the same bike and rider depending on the terrain!
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
francovendee
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by francovendee »

It will be interesting in your solution to this.
I don't enjoy hills and as soon as the pace drops below walking speed I get off and walk until it levels out a bit.
For some the idea of walking is a no no but when I'm down to my lowest gear ( 34x22 ) and my speed drops below 3 mph I don't hesitate to walk.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by roubaixtuesday »

AliK wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:09pm Please can somebody clarify why balance may be a problem as presumably it isn't when these 50/52T are used on mountain bikes? or is it?

Or for that matter on a bike with a Rohloff hub (if I've understood various articles correctly)?

I would have thought balance would be easier based on the logic that at the moment if I go one or two gears up from my lowest gear it is then much harder to balance. ie my balance gets worse the higher the gear is. Or am I not understanding exactly what people are meaning by balance??
It's just the speed you're going is so low. I'd guess you're probably around 3mph on your current gearing. Cycling a loaded bike up a hill at a lower speed still would not be easy.

As others have pointed out, a 50T cassette would normally be used on a 1x (single chainring) setup, and wouldn't provide gears as low as those you currently have.
jimlews
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by jimlews »

You could try one of these...

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hubs-intern ... e-hub-36h/

in conjunction with your existing front triple chainset and 9speed cassette with 34t sprocket.

That would give you, ooh... a very low bottom gear.
Jdsk
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by Jdsk »

AliK wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:09pm Please can somebody clarify why balance may be a problem as presumably it isn't when these 50/52T are used on mountain bikes? or is it?

Or for that matter on a bike with a Rohloff hub (if I've understood various articles correctly)?

I would have thought balance would be easier based on the logic that at the moment if I go one or two gears up from my lowest gear it is then much harder to balance. ie my balance gets worse the higher the gear is. Or am I not understanding exactly what people are meaning by balance??
You're discussing the effects of gearing on ability to balance. Others are describing the effect of road speed, and that you wouldn't be able to balance at a lower road speed.

Do you think that you could?

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
freeflow wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 2:00pm Depending on your current gearing it may be relatively simple to switch to a cassette with a 40 or 42 tooth chainring. New cassette, new chain and a rear derailleur hanger extender (dog tooth ). However that's not going to get you much. Your current gearing at 34/22 is 17.5 gear inches. Switching to 40/22 will get you to 14.9 gear inches. At this level though, you have to be pedalling with a relatively high cadence to generate sufficient speed to be able to balance on the bike. Consequently, you might already be at the point where it just makes sense to get off the bike and push for a short while. Have a play on the Sheldon Brown gear calculator to see what I mean.

https://sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html
I have an 18 inch gear on my touring bike and it was useful for going up really steep stuff when loaded.
But the only time I would use it would be off-road going up hill.
I tend to find very steep hills you need to stand and use higher gears otherwise spinning in the saddle at lower gears you simply fall into the hedge.
If you can't get up the hill with an 18 inch gear or 17.5 as with the OP's case then it is probably safer to walk anyway for the short distance.
Cycling up steep hills is chronically inefficient and it's very possible you will slow down to a rate which will get you to the top of the hill after someone walking pushing their bike has.
I'm talking from experience when I had to get off my bike through lack of fitness on a hill on an audax over DARTMOOR, The organiser had caught me at the bottom of the hill because he was fitter at the time but he really struggled to get in front of me with me walking.
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by Vorpal »

" or "
AliK wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:09pm Please can somebody clarify why balance may be a problem as presumably it isn't when these 50/52T are used on mountain bikes? or is it?

Or for that matter on a bike with a Rohloff hub (if I've understood various articles correctly)?

I would have thought balance would be easier based on the logic that at the moment if I go one or two gears up from my lowest gear it is then much harder to balance. ie my balance gets worse the higher the gear is. Or am I not understanding exactly what people are meaning by balance??
On a mountain bike, when you are only going at 2 or 3 mph, you generally only have yourself and the bike to balance. On a tourer, you also have to keep all your gear upright.

Anyway, the gearing systems tends to be set up a little differently. The lowest gear is generally around 19" or 20", about the same as on a tourer with low gearing.

I have about 21" as my lowest gear on my tourer. If I can't push me & my camping stuff up a hill, I just get off and walk. Living in Norway, as I do, there's a fair amount of that, and I don't worry about doing it. No matter how low the gearing, there will always be a hill to defeat it. :lol:
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by squeaker »

AliK wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:09pm Please can somebody clarify why balance may be a problem as presumably it isn't when these 50/52T are used on mountain bikes? or is it?

Or for that matter on a bike with a Rohloff hub (if I've understood various articles correctly)?

I would have thought balance would be easier based on the logic that at the moment if I go one or two gears up from my lowest gear it is then much harder to balance. ie my balance gets worse the higher the gear is. Or am I not understanding exactly what people are meaning by balance??
'Balance' to me means not falling off and going in roughly the right direction... 1x MTBs eg like this have a single 30T or similar chainwheel giving about 17" bottom gear. The 11-51 cassette is just to get a passable gear spread whilst avoiding the need for multiple chain rings and a front mech.
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by PH »

ossie wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 6:37pm Whatever you do you'll probably end up pushing at some point in Devon and Dorset. Nothing to be ashamed of,
I know some people find it really uncomfortable pushing a bike uphill and others who see it as some kind of failure, but I do it quite frequently, sometimes even when I could ride.
I've seen the figures that demonstrate that it's always more efficient to pedal (I don't dispute them) but I can walk up a steep hill with a lower heart rate than I can cycle up it. I could probably change my gearing to equalise that, but only by compromising the gear range I use frequently and I'm not sure I could balance a loaded bike at a slower speed. Plus the speed difference will be minimal and I find it's sometimes nice just to have a change.
I like long days, even on a 100 mile touring day or a 400km Audax walking up a couple of hills isn't going to make much difference to my finish time.
mattsccm
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by mattsccm »

Balence. It's amatter of how slow you can go before you fall over. I can't stand still on my MTB for more than about 10 seconds. Add to that that legs going like humming birds wings make me more unstable.
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Re: Extremely low gears

Post by Thehairs1970 »

Tiggertoo wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 11:26pm "my daily mileages were very low, usually about 25 - 30 miles."

Okay, I see now, rather like the tortoise which is quite happy with its load. :roll:

My daily mileage bikepacking is more in the hundred mile range, and it would ride me crazy to lumber along as if I was just going to the shops. If ever I am on the road and I see a ponderous vision on two wheels ahead, I will know it is probably horizon and give a cheery wave - but sorry to admit, not accompanied by any offer of assistance. :D
Am I the only one that feels there are some unnecessary comments here and boasts about your own ability? You are obviously blessed with amazing abilities but maybe you could work on modesty and understanding.
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