Routes Across the Alps (and Visa Problems)

[stevemelia]

Have any of you cycled across or around the Alps, either following the Eurovelo 5 from Lucerne to Como, or following the coastal route via Monaco? If so, could you let me know what it was like? I am planning a long trip towards the Adriatic with full luggage and looking to avoid or minimise any heroic ascents, but also to avoid main roads as far as possible.

I am planning to retire at Christmas, and have been planning for years to cycle across Europe, from home to Greece and back. There are now two further complications: COVID and Brexit/visas. Like many of you, no doubt, I am hoping the COVID situation will be improving by next Spring. If not this may have to be delayed.

As regards the visa situation, next year (or possibly 2023) may provide a last-ever opportunity for British citizens to do this type of ride. If you have been following the story on visas, there is no realistic possibility for "normal people" to obtain a multi-country flexible-dated visa for the Schengen area. Individual country visas would be impossible to coordinate for a trip of this nature. It may be possible to get a French 6 month visa allowing 90 days in the rest of Schengen, but I suspect I might need a bit longer than that. We currently have a short window of opportunity before Croatia, Romania and Bulgaria join Schengen (approved by the European parliament, not yet implemented). That means that we can take:

- Up to 90 days to reach the Croatian border
- A minimum of 90 days in the Balkan countries (excluding Greece)
- Up to 90 days to ride home

That's what I am currently planning, going back via Patras, Southern Italy and Sardinia to Marseille.

Those 90 day limits are absolute. If you search online you will find some horror stories of what happened to people who (accidentally or deliberately) exceeded them.

[simonhill]

I can't help you on the Alps, but would query the times of year you will be hitting the road. A straight 9 months is either going to start in or take you well into winter. The Balkans particularly get very cold etc.

If I was planning this I'd say times have changed and I have to rearrange.

One option would be cycle to Greece, overwinter in Cyprus and/or Turkey (or wherever). Cycle home in spring.

Alternatively, cycle out then fly or train home. You may be able to leave gear and even bike behind. Wait 3 months (or whatever required). Fly or train out and cycle home.

Nonetheless, I feel your pain.

[Tiggertoo]

I have done some of these long distance tours and usually got fed up with myself long before 270 days were over. I agree that coming home and starting out again makes a lot of sense.

[st599_uk]

You may be able to leave gear and even bike behind. Wait 3 months (or whatever required). Fly or train out and cycle home.

If you imported the gear then left it, you may find yourself facing import duties for it.

[Paulc]

Col de Mont Cenis was fun from France into Italy. Though the Maurienne valley roads aren't the most pleasant cycle in the Alps. We took a train part way. The southern part of the valley was nice.

We found Col Agnello from the Italian side very tough though not helped by a long ride the day before.

[simonhill]

You may be able to leave gear and even bike behind. Wait 3 months (or whatever required). Fly or train out and cycle home.

If you imported the gear then left it, you may find yourself facing import duties for it.

Maybe by the letter of the law, but is this very likely?

I have taken my bike into many countries and never had my passport or immigration record annotated. Even in Sri Lanka which is very tight on imports, where I left my bike once.

That time was in a hotel, but in Europe I'd look out for a cycling club and contact them.

Re finding routes, personal recommendations best, but I have used Google maps in cycle mode. It gives a profile. You can also use street view to see what the road is like. Scour the map, select likely crossing and investigate. Cycle travel would presumably also do the job.

[willem jongman]

There are two Dutch cycle route guide books (with gps tracks) from Maastricht to Rome. One (https://www.reitsmaroutes.nl/rome) takes an eastern trajectory through Germany, and takes the Reschen Pass (with bus options). The other (https://www.cyclingeurope.nl/routes/rome/index.php) initially goes through France, and takes the Spluegen Pass into Italy (but has a beautiful alternative by train via St Moritz). A variant of this route (https://www.cyclingeurope.nl/routes/venetie/index.php) takes the Simplon Pass, and includes some possibilities for shortcuts by train. Crossing the Alpine passes takes a bit of planning because in Spring they willl still be closed with snow. So you may have to consider taking a train for the highest parts.

[stevemelia]

Thanks for these replies. I was planning to leave at the beginning of March, so if I took the full 9 months I would be returning through France in November, which might be a bit too cold and wet. I can see how it goes and make a decision about a possible train back when I reach Marseille.

Just reading those comments about the Alpine passes I am thinking that narrows the choice down to either the coast route via Monaco or the long way round via the Danube to Vienna.

[stevemelia]

I have just made a surprising discovery which might clinch it. Basel and Vienna along the northerly route both have less rainfall in Spring than in summer. In April, they both have less rain than Milan on the southerly route. So I am tending towards Eurovelo 6 to Vienna, then EV 9 through Slovenia to the Croatian coast.

[nirakaro]

I approached my first alpine pass, aged fifty-nine, with some trepidation, and found it much less of a challenge than I expected, for several reasons:
Unless you go looking for the big macho climbs, alpine roads are very well-engineered, with gradients rarely exceeding 5-6%.
You'll start the climb already at a fair height, and it will be a steady climb with no wasted upping and downing; so a 2000m pass (if for example you took the Simplon) may well start at 700m or so, and 1300m of climbing will get you to the top. For comparison, I climbed 1000m crossing the Pennines from Shipley to Fleetwood last year.
It's not a race. The Tour de France may do the climb in an hour, but you and I can take all day over it – and then you get to freewheel twenty miles down the other side.
By the time you've pedalled across France, your legs will be well ready for it.
You're allowed to get off and walk – when I did the Agnello a few years later, the last ten kilometres averaged 10%, and I walked every yard. Took about three hours, but was far from 'heroic'.
So, not need to be intimidated. Go for it.

[climo]

90 days maximum without a visa - just part of the brexit dividend. The good thing is that all the silver haired retirees who voted for this shambles and were hoping to spend the winters in the sun are in the same boat. Pun intended.

[TrevA]

Some of the Alpine passes are kept open during the winter. Whilst, for example, the Galibier is closed by snow, the Col du Lauteret between Grenoble/Bourg d’Oisan and Briancon is kept open. Not sure about further east into Italy, but I would imagine the same applies.

The high passes open around the middle of May.

[foxyrider]

Some of the Alpine passes are kept open during the winter. Whilst, for example, the Galibier is closed by snow, the Col du Lauteret between Grenoble/Bourg d’Oisan and Briancon is kept open. Not sure about further east into Italy, but I would imagine the same applies.

The high passes open around the middle of May.

I think it depends on whether there is a viable alternative, for example the Bernina is kept open but the lower pass into Livigno next door isn't (it usually opens on June 1st!) as there is an alternative route in, the Furka isn't always open but the railway underneath takes road traffic etc, etc.