OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

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Sweep
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OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Sweep »

Wasn't sure which bit to put this in but I know a lot of folk use it for touring.

OSMand with the latest update appears to have changed its pricing.

You used to be able to pay a one-off for life - a good deal but then the maps it uses are open source.

NOW there only seem to be monthly and annual subs payments.

I paid a fiver for maps for life with monthly updates, OSMand+ as they called it (never saw the point of more frequent updates) and an additional one-off for the gradients add-on.

I trust that they will honour this but can't help but think that as updates continue my lifetime subscription will become less functional.

I use it on an android tab - I also trust that when that tab wears out I will be able to continue with my life deal on a different tab registered to the same google account.

We will see.
Sweep
Pendodave
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Pendodave »

I just found out that this had happened. Not happy.
I'd paid the one off fee to download several maps, and seem to have lost all those over the non-paying limit.
One of which happened to be the one I was travelling through the other day.
Strangely, it wasn't a disaster as I was following a gpx imported from cycle.travel, and the audio instructions were good enough to keep me on track.
Not sure that would work as we'll in a complicated urban environment as the rather less taxing setting of the peak district.
I'm not a fan of the rental model - are there similar products which still offer a one-off payment?
I use the product on two different phones (Both with the same Google sign on) and I've a feeling that what's happened is not the same on both.
Psamathe
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Psamathe »

I intensely dislike subscription model charges for software but I can appreciate why developers switch to the model. I avoid such software as far as possible (not always possible). That said, I'm quite happy if a package becomes "frozen in time" and a "Pro" or "Plus" version is released for a new one off price (with additional functionality).

I don't know Google Store but one of the massive shortcomings of the Apple App Store(s) is that they provide no mechanism for upgrade pricing (e.g. you buy version 2.1 for £5, get v2.2 free, v2.3 free but when version 3.0 is released you get an upgrade price e.g. £2.50 where new purchaser still pay the full £5). Upgrade pricing would be a good intermediate between one time payment and subscription.
Sweep wrote: 9 Aug 2021, 9:05am ...I paid a fiver for maps for life with monthly updates, OSMand+ as they called it (never saw the point of more frequent updates) and an additional one-off for the gradients add-on.

I trust that they will honour this but can't help but think that as updates continue my lifetime subscription will become less functional.

I use it on an android tab - I also trust that when that tab wears out I will be able to continue with my life deal on a different tab registered to the same google account.
....
I don't use OSMand (too buggy for me) but normally with such changes it would be honoured except without updates. And updates can be more important than many recognise as those updates include changes for running under newer OS releases (and newer OS releases can be very important fixing privacy and security holes).

Similarly with when the tab is eventually replaced - the replacement will likely have a much newer OS version and the by then old OSMand may easily not run on that new OS so whilst the app may still be downloadable, it wont run (or will regularly crash) so in effect it's no longer useful.

Ian
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Sweep
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Sweep »

Pendodave wrote: 27 Aug 2021, 10:55am I just found out that this had happened. Not happy.
I'd paid the one off fee to download several maps, and seem to have lost all those over the non-paying limit.
One of which happened to be the one I was travelling through the other day.
Strangely, it wasn't a disaster as I was following a gpx imported from cycle.travel, and the audio instructions were good enough to keep me on track.
Not sure that would work as we'll in a complicated urban environment as the rather less taxing setting of the peak district.
I'm not a fan of the rental model - are there similar products which still offer a one-off payment?
I use the product on two different phones (Both with the same Google sign on) and I've a feeling that what's happened is not the same on both.
Hi Pendo - I thought the previous lifetime paid option gave you unlimited maps for life - no limit on areas. I thought the only limit on areas was for the free version. Five?
My lifetime sub is still working - just today it offered as an update and delivered a new worldwide base map.
Just after they announced this my monthly updates on the areas I had downloaded downloaded OK.
Will check again in September - will be about the second week I guess from my previous experience.
I have also just as a test asked for a map area (Malta) I have never downloaded before - map and gradients - and all downloaded OK.
I do keep getting nags to download their new OSMand Pro package though - have no intention of doing this - I don't need more frequent map updates and suspect that if I went for that package it would screw my lifetime package.
I do suspect though that that will become less usable as they develop the system - will see.

Do report back/keep us informed on your continuing experience, particularly the possible issue with your two devices.
I find it a great package, even though it does have some quirks.
Sweep
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Sweep
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Sweep »

Psamathe wrote: 27 Aug 2021, 11:33am
I don't use OSMand (too buggy for me) but normally with such changes it would be honoured except without updates. And updates can be more important than many recognise as those updates include changes for running under newer OS releases (and newer OS releases can be very important fixing privacy and security holes).

Similarly with when the tab is eventually replaced - the replacement will likely have a much newer OS version and the by then old OSMand may easily not run on that new OS so whilst the app may still be downloadable, it wont run (or will regularly crash) so in effect it's no longer useful.

Ian
I hope they don't do that - if they do I would consider it a breach of the agreement.
If they did I would think very seriously before chucking more money at them for a new package they could then effectively disable on a whim.
Would be interested in the bugs you found - all I have is that it freezes every time I input a personal POI - I have to wait 40 secs or so, wait for it to tell me it's stuck. Then close and reopen. To find that it has after all put the POI in. But this may be because of some issue with the card I have in the tab.
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Psamathe
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Psamathe »

Sweep wrote: 27 Aug 2021, 11:55am
Psamathe wrote: 27 Aug 2021, 11:33am
I don't use OSMand (too buggy for me) but normally with such changes it would be honoured except without updates. And updates can be more important than many recognise as those updates include changes for running under newer OS releases (and newer OS releases can be very important fixing privacy and security holes).

Similarly with when the tab is eventually replaced - the replacement will likely have a much newer OS version and the by then old OSMand may easily not run on that new OS so whilst the app may still be downloadable, it wont run (or will regularly crash) so in effect it's no longer useful.

Ian
I hope they don't do that - if they do I would consider it a breach of the agreement.
If they did I would think very seriously before chucking more money at them for a new package they could then effectively disable on a whim.
Would be interested in the bugs you found - all I have is that it freezes every time I input a personal POI - I have to wait 40 secs or so, wait for it to tell me it's stuck. Then close and reopen. To find that it has after all put the POI in. But this may be because of some issue with the card I have in the tab.
I'm no legal expert but I suspect that your agreement with them covers map updates for the software you use against that agreement. But does the agreement cover any obligation that the software be maintained forever? (unliklely as the developer might move on to other work/retire/etc.).

So if the software you use is "discontinued" then in effect your agreement still stands but with nothing left to update. And software can be "discontinued" and a different product released (even if the new product is similar to the old product, but e.g. with "Pro" added after the name and with additional functionality.

When we pay money for software (and lots of other things) we do place a degree of trust in the company we are giving our money to - hence looking at the company as well as the product. Of course we don't when spending e.g. £5 and the various App Stores do attract a lot of developers who are as much a hobby as a job (or who start with grand plans and then realise they need to pay the rent and eat and so start contracting or take on a full time job).

For years with software when you one-time purchase software you get minor updates for free (e.g. on-time purchase v4.1 and get 4.x for free) but you have to pay an upgrade price for version 5 (because it includes new functionality and after version 5 release version 4 updates start to become a lot less frequent ...). I made a one-time purchase of Windows Vista from Microsoft years ago and I still have the license, etc. but it is useless because no software would run under it, lots of vulnerabilities as it's rarely if ever patched, etc. So even Microsoft have the same limitations on "lifetime".

Ian
Richard Fairhurst
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

I find it interesting that most bike routing apps have coalesced around the same business model - £4ish per month or £30ish per year for "premium" access, which invariably means offline maps, turn-by-turn directions, and some other baubles to get the feature list up.

OSMand has a larger market than just cyclists so can afford to be a bit more generous: AIUI turn-by-turn is free, and you can have a handful of offline regions without paying. But I'm not greatly surprised to see them go the way of everyone else.

Certainly the subscription model makes sense for an app based around online routing, just because servers have to be paid for. If an app does everything offline (like MapOut) then a one-time purchase perhaps makes more sense.
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sjs
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by sjs »

Pendodave wrote: 27 Aug 2021, 10:55am I just found out that this had happened. Not happy.
I'd paid the one off fee to download several maps, and seem to have lost all those over the non-paying limit.
One of which happened to be the one I was travelling through the other day.
Strangely, it wasn't a disaster as I was following a gpx imported from cycle.travel, and the audio instructions were good enough to keep me on track.
Not sure that would work as we'll in a complicated urban environment as the rather less taxing setting of the peak district.
I'm not a fan of the rental model - are there similar products which still offer a one-off payment?
I use the product on two different phones (Both with the same Google sign on) and I've a feeling that what's happened is not the same on both.
Locus Map pro is still available as a one-off purchase, with a promise that it will be maintained. But the latest version (v4) has also moved to a subscription model. I intend to stay with the v3, which works well. I chose it originally just because I noticed it before I noticed Osmand. I believe its features if not the user interface are similar.
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Sweep
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Sweep »

Richard Fairhurst wrote: 27 Aug 2021, 12:36pm I find it interesting that most bike routing apps have coalesced around the same business model - £4ish per month or £30ish per year for "premium" access, which invariably means offline maps, turn-by-turn directions, and some other baubles to get the feature list up.

OSMand has a larger market than just cyclists so can afford to be a bit more generous: AIUI turn-by-turn is free, and you can have a handful of offline regions without paying. But I'm not greatly surprised to see them go the way of everyone else.

Certainly the subscription model makes sense for an app based around online routing, just because servers have to be paid for. If an app does everything offline (like MapOut) then a one-time purchase perhaps makes more sense.
interesting points as always richard.
I never use OSMand for live routeing though, online or offline (and I hate the thought of something talking in my ear in whatever language) - I just use it as maps with the ability to add POIs, display my routes on top of so I can see the bigger picture.

(routes come of course via your fine system :) )
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by al_yrpal »

Dont know what this thread is about? I pay my £5.49 once per year. Its a bargain, the best mapping and navigation application by far out there. Whats more recommended by Sir Tim Berners Lee!

Al
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Sweep »

al_yrpal wrote: 27 Aug 2021, 10:57pm Dont know what this thread is about? I pay my £5.49 once per year. Its a bargain, the best mapping and navigation application by far out there. Whats more recommended by Sir Tim Berners Lee!

Al
Had assumed you were on the all-in thing al since I know you have used it for a long time.

I agree it is good, despite the odd quirk.

By the by if anyone has any clues as to why mine takes so long to register a POI mark input, then freezes to require a reboot of the app (not tab I stress) I'd be interested. I assume this doesn't afflict everyone - maybe I have a less than optimal card or maybe my version of android is a bit too old.
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Pendodave »

So I've revisited my two OSMand phones since posting earlier up the thread, and trawled through my emails to get to the bottom of what's happening. After all, I wouldn't want to diss them in public without good reason.

I think I may have been mistaken about my initial purchase. It looks as if I signed up for the yearly sub (@£6.99 fwiw). I must have been confusing this with another app.

As for the disappearing maps - I think this may be related to the fact that the phone I use for navigation doesn't have a sim in, and is only switched on when going on a trip. It therefore often doesn't have the current version of the software which I suspect may have been related to my experience.

So, whether I like it or not, I am a subscription user. As Al says though, it's pretty good value for what it provides.
When Richard produces the Android version of cycle.travel, I won't need it any more anyway....
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Sweep »

Pendodave wrote: 29 Aug 2021, 12:49pm

As for the disappearing maps - I think this may be related to the fact that the phone I use for navigation doesn't have a sim in, and is only switched on when going on a trip. It therefore often doesn't have the current version of the software which I suspect may have been related to my experience.
I thought its maps had always been offline - that's the thing that is so great about it.
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Tangled Metal »

Please can someone help. I've got a favour to ask of any osmand user with maps+ or Pro versions. Any chance you can post a screenshot of the more detailed mapping you get? I am investigating hiking gps options for us and the free app version mapping is no use for me but before buying into it I would like to see the detail on the better maps. If possible north west of England. It's so I can see if the paths are shown with enough detail. I'm used to OS mapping on paper or Harvey's mapping.

Sorry if this is a bit of a cheek.
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Re: OSMand changed pricing model - now subs

Post by Sweep »

Tangled Metal wrote: 10 Sep 2021, 5:21pm Please can someone help. I've got a favour to ask of any osmand user with maps+ or Pro versions. Any chance you can post a screenshot of the more detailed mapping you get? I am investigating hiking gps options for us and the free app version mapping is no use for me but before buying into it I would like to see the detail on the better maps. If possible north west of England. It's so I can see if the paths are shown with enough detail. I'm used to OS mapping on paper or Harvey's mapping.

Sorry if this is a bit of a cheek.
Am pretty sure the maps on the full paid for version are exactly the same as you get on the free version, so can't you just check out that?

They are open street map.

Am assuming there is still a free option.

A bit tricky to show an image of the map - the great thing about OSMand is that you can choose what features/things show up *- if you selected to show everything, especially in urban areas, you wouldn't actually be able to see the map.

Am pretty sure you will be happy with the maps - the detail in the UK is amazing.

For your use I would also take a paper map as well anyway - yes, the maps are offline, but you are still reliant on battery power/electronics.
* as I sometimes point out, including brothels, not something the OS routinely highlights.
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