Riding to the COP26 climate meetings from London

[mattheus]

I thought that the crux of this was people making international flights to persuade others to reduce their consumption.

The crux of this was the OP wanted advice on cycling from London to Glasgow.

Odd that hardly anyone wanted to talk about the cycling bit, isn't it??

[mattheus]

What would probably reduce CO2 emissions more:
- disputing this chap's choice to fly over here, or
- campaigning more widely to reduce flying and make more sustainable travel cheaper FOR EVERYONE

[thirdcrank]

I deleted this because my formatting was haywire

[thirdcrank]

I thought that the crux of this was people making international flights to persuade others to reduce their consumption.

The crux of this was the OP wanted advice on cycling from London to Glasgow. :lol:

Odd that hardly anyone wanted to talk about the cycling bit, isn't it??

There were several pages at the beginning of the thread where some people offered cycling advice, come of it in the form of questions about the OP's cycling plans. The OP replied twice, never really engaging with contributors about the cycle travel aspects. I'm making a difference between someone asking for advice and actually wanting it.

Beyond that, anybody wanting to preach to others (or suggest that others modify their conduct) has to have both a thick skin and meticulous conduct of their own. IMO

[mattheus]

Yes, OK there was some cycling advice, fair point. But a number of replies included hints like this one:

...

You haven't mentioned how you will be travelling to get here.

[thirdcrank]

Yep - and that small dig was prompted by the thread title, and anticipating what was to come. I'm not going back to look but in the absence of anything further from the OP about cycling, I don't think I had much more to say until it became clear that this had little to do with a search for cycling advice.
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PS This may be as good a place as any to post this

Campaigners react with fury over decision not to review Heathrow policy

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/heat ... 53953.html

Is this decision motivated by a wish to accommodate air travellers flying in to protest about air travel, or, perhaps more likely, a cabal of Cabinet ministers believing Boris Johnson will perish under the first bulldozer?

[TrevA]

What would probably reduce CO2 emissions more:
- disputing this chap's choice to fly over here, or
- campaigning more widely to reduce flying and make more sustainable travel cheaper FOR EVERYONE

Yes, but this is classic “Do as I say and not as I do”. Much like Emma Thompson flying in from LA to take part in an Extinction Rebellion event in London.

[Tyre Lady]

@slowster. - think your consideration is a blinkered outlook

A tree consumes CO2 and also releases CO2. What is its overall balance? Depends on weather conditions, temperature, species.

Likewise there are choices each individual will make that will reduce CO2 emissions (carbon handprint) and produce CO2 emissions (carbon footprint). After that, depending on the individual, there will be the individual's impact (influence) on others.

Overall there needs to be a more holistic look with regards to carbon emissions & environmental pollution.

1. Do you accept the IPCC assessment that it essential to limit future global CO2 emissions to 400 billion tonnes?

2. If you do, how is that achieved without the level of personal reductions in CO2 emissions that I have outlined above?

1. .... is irrelevant to this conversation
2. Your view of carbon footprinting is so simplistic and blinkered. Would recommend you attend ISO 14064 to gain a better understanding of Greenhouse gases

You are sooo fixated on flying that you have not understood the OP's (or any other person's) carbon handprint

When you can acknowledge there is a carbon balance and that some people can create a negative carbon footprint through their actions EVEN if they have to fly then maybe we can move forward in this conversation. You should also be working on all levels - working at the individual level is slow. If you want a bigger impact need to go bigger with communities, local boroughs, regional councils, national governments.

Once you have tried to campaign to change what is normal and tried to manage projects virtually then we can change the dance.

Otherwise it has been great dancing with ya @slowster We should get back to talking about cycling, where my knowledge is quite poor on this subject area. Wishing you an amazing week

[mattheus]

Well said!

[DevonDamo]

Yes, but this is classic “Do as I say and not as I do”. Much like Emma Thompson flying in from LA to take part in an Extinction Rebellion event in London.

That's a deliberate misinterpretation of what climate protesters are doing. They're not, as you imply, chaining themselves to railings etc. as a way to browbeat the average citizen into using their car less or show off their own personal green credentials. They are in fact trying to put pressure on national Governments and International groups, such as the G7, to start bringing in legislation which are the only way climate change will ever be tackled. The right wing media's attack strategy is to deliberately misrepresent these protests as 'look at how Green I am'
vanity projects. As this thread shows, it's a devastatingly-effective strategy, which even a supposedly-enlightened group like bike enthusiasts get taken in by.

If you adopt your '"that person isn't travelling to their protest by a coracle made of recycled kittens' tears, therefore their protest is worthless and can be ignored/ridiculed" standard, then you are guaranteeing that we end up with the status quo, i.e. a public absolutely outraged about Greta Thunberg failing to travel everywhere by donkey whilst being completely unperturbed that national and international law-makers are failing to tackle climate change. This effectively gives an absolute license to the petrochemical industries, car manufacturers etc. to continue on their current path doing nothing more than ineffective 'greenwash' initiatives to tackle a grave problem for which, despite what the right-wing press will tell you, there is overwhelming evidence.

[mattheus]

Exactly.
The "Hypocrisy!" card just doesn't hold water.

Oi, Poorer nations of the Global South: sorry, we're bu99ering up your lives for our own economic benefits. But you can't come to our meetings to discuss it unless you use sustainable transport. Why should WE stop flying if YOU won't?? Ha ha!

[Carlton green]

What would probably reduce CO2 emissions more:
- disputing this chap's choice to fly over here, or
- campaigning more widely to reduce flying and make more sustainable travel cheaper FOR EVERYONE

Is this a trick question or does someone have to have a very low IQ to get the wrong answer? Ah, but wait, I feel sure that some very self important and Ivory Tower types have already failed the test . How can that be??

What about campaigning to cap the amount of Aviation Gas used at U.K. Airports and connecting flights (ie. include measures to stop the cap being got around). What about putting pressure on the holiday industry to stop shipping people abroad, either have your hols here in the U.K. or go to adjoining countries without flying.

[Carlton green]

Yes, but this is classic “Do as I say and not as I do”. Much like Emma Thompson flying in from LA to take part in an Extinction Rebellion event in London.

That's a deliberate misinterpretation of what climate protesters are doing. They're not, as you imply, chaining themselves to railings etc. as a way to browbeat the average citizen into using their car less or show off their own personal green credentials. They are in fact trying to put pressure on national Governments and International groups, such as the G7, to start bringing in legislation which are the only way climate change will ever be tackled. The right wing media's attack strategy is to deliberately misrepresent these protests as 'look at how Green I am'
vanity projects. As this thread shows, it's a devastatingly-effective strategy, which even a supposedly-enlightened group like bike enthusiasts get taken in by.

If you adopt your '"that person isn't travelling to their protest by a coracle made of recycled kittens' tears, therefore their protest is worthless and can be ignored/ridiculed" standard, then you are guaranteeing that we end up with the status quo, i.e. a public absolutely outraged about Greta Thunberg failing to travel everywhere by donkey whilst being completely unperturbed that national and international law-makers are failing to tackle climate change. This effectively gives an absolute license to the petrochemical industries, car manufacturers etc. to continue on their current path doing nothing more than ineffective 'greenwash' initiatives to tackle a grave problem for which, despite what the right-wing press will tell you, there is overwhelming evidence.

Well said, plus one

[pwa]

Yes, but this is classic “Do as I say and not as I do”. Much like Emma Thompson flying in from LA to take part in an Extinction Rebellion event in London.

That's a deliberate misinterpretation of what climate protesters are doing. They're not, as you imply, chaining themselves to railings etc. as a way to browbeat the average citizen into using their car less or show off their own personal green credentials. They are in fact trying to put pressure on national Governments and International groups, such as the G7, to start bringing in legislation which are the only way climate change will ever be tackled. The right wing media's attack strategy is to deliberately misrepresent these protests as 'look at how Green I am'
vanity projects. As this thread shows, it's a devastatingly-effective strategy, which even a supposedly-enlightened group like bike enthusiasts get taken in by.

If you adopt your '"that person isn't travelling to their protest by a coracle made of recycled kittens' tears, therefore their protest is worthless and can be ignored/ridiculed" standard, then you are guaranteeing that we end up with the status quo, i.e. a public absolutely outraged about Greta Thunberg failing to travel everywhere by donkey whilst being completely unperturbed that national and international law-makers are failing to tackle climate change. This effectively gives an absolute license to the petrochemical industries, car manufacturers etc. to continue on their current path doing nothing more than ineffective 'greenwash' initiatives to tackle a grave problem for which, despite what the right-wing press will tell you, there is overwhelming evidence.

Well said, plus one

But it is still irritating to have ones own need to cut down car use highlighted time after time by folk whose means of having a nice holiday results in more greenhouse gas damage in a couple of flights than I manage in a year with a car. I know I need to cut down my car use, and I'm making progress in the right direction, but I don't want folk with even bigger failings pointing at mine whilst ignoring their own. That isn't right and it makes no sense. I look forward to seeing climate change protesters disrupting access to Heathrow, which so far seems to have escaped their attention, unlike terrestrial public transport.

[Oldjohnw]

I have received my share of the above but my view is that I should keep my fairly sparsely used car as if I sold it someone would work it hard, I would be without a car which I do need and to buy an ev, even if it were really affordable, would involve a whole lot of new steel. Today I got over 80mpg driving in to town so I make a little fuel go a long way.

One of today’s great sports is telling other people how to live their lives.