What Goes Round - Panniers

[Bmblbzzz]

I wonder which frame builder was the first to incorporate 26” wheels into the touring bike. Roberts? Anyway, here’s Ian Hibbell on Blue Peter in 1975.

https://youtu.be/ny81vcxTZQk

Shep's the star.

[nsew]

I wonder which frame builder was the first to incorporate 26” wheels into the touring bike. Roberts?

From an article on Walter McGregor Robinson ('Wayfarer'):

W.McG.Robinson was the writer of the Wayfarer touring articles which were a popular fortnightly feature in CYCLING from 1912 until the Thirties, and his Roadside Reflections were published every other week. The latter presentation was mainly candid comment in a broad evaluation of the men and affairs in the cycling sphere. The comment was typically forthright, and when necessary, caustic. One of his incessant themes was "as little bicycle as possible". These were the days of the heavy roadsters with 28-inch wheels, great big things which took a heavy toll of one's energy. Robbie advocated lightweights, with 26" wheels, and only as much frame as your body height demanded.

http://www.anfieldbc.co.uk/circulars/c_1974_oc.pdf

Roadside Reflections - perfect. I can see the old boy riding along formulating ideas (because that’s where the best thinking occurs) and then stopping off to record by pen and paper. Perhaps a brew. Notable is the only (to my knowledge) mention of a cycling club disco. Shame there’s no mention of a playlist.

Strictly speaking the 26” wheels Wayfarer was referring to were 590mm in diameter. Any ideas on the first 559mm fitted touring bikes?

[simonhill]

Not sure about first builder, but there was a strong movement by those that 'converted' early non sus MTBs.

My first (on return) bike was an early Saracen Kili Flyer. Handbuilt 531. I added rack, rear Super Cs and guards and off I went. First big tour was 2 months to New Zealand in 1991.

Such bikes were widely scorned on this forum. Flat bars, 26" wheels - pah!

Thorn were the first mainstream company I remember pushing 26" tourers. Can't remember when.

[nsew]

New Zealand was my first proper bike tour in 2010. A days notice, Auckland to Christchurch on a too small borrowed bike. Furious headwinds, rains, totally ill prepared, almost died, brilliant.

[nsew]

Not sure about first builder, but there was a strong movement by those that 'converted' early non sus MTBs.

My first (on return) bike was an early Saracen Kili Flyer. Handbuilt 531. I added rack, rear Super Cs and guards and off I went. First big tour was 2 months to New Zealand in 1991.

Such bikes were widely scorned on this forum. Flat bars, 26" wheels - pah!

Thorn were the first mainstream company I remember pushing 26" tourers. Can't remember when.

Yes plenty of those, here’s a converted Muddy Fox in the mid 80s - though I think this is how it was sold. Still wondering about the first dedicated 26” “touring bike”. The Taylor’s produced 650b roughstuff touring bikes in the 60s. Of course the French were producing those in the 30s.

[Bmblbzzz]

I'd guess the first 559 tourers came from one of the American manufacturers probably also in the 1930s, maybe earlier. Probably not Schwinn, they used a different size I think.

[nsew]

I'd guess the first 559 tourers came from one of the American manufacturers probably also in the 1930s, maybe earlier. Probably not Schwinn, they used a different size I think.

“1930's Schwinn introduced the fat tire, spring fork, streamline Excelsior, designed to take the abuse of teenage boys, which was the proto-mountain bike. The Schwinn Excelsior frames became the model for the early mountain bikes almost fifty years later”. https://www.ibike.org/library/history-timeline.htm

An eBay auction
“Auction is for two 26" x 2.125" Tires. These Tires were used on Prewar and Post war Deluxe Ballooner Bikes, Like: Shelby, Schwinns, Dayton / Huffman, Hawthorne, Monark, Columbia, Colson, and Elgin etc.”

Thorn began as a company in 1995 with the 700c Club Tour. Not sure when they began producing 26” bikes. I have a 1994 26” Roberts with triple bottle bosses and rack mounts.

[nsew]

Tony Oliver didn’t fit bottle cage bosses on his 26” tourers, likely due to the paper thin 753 tubing. His were built in the late 80s. The middle pic Roberts has three bottle bosses, dates from 1984 but was classed as a mountain bike or all terrain bike as they were then known. The last is a 90s Roberts Cumbria, a model which dates from the late 80s I believe. Roberts clearly favoured 3 bottles for heading off road.

[djb]

as the owner of a recentish 26er tourer, Surly Troll, the main reasons I like 26"--slightly lower gearing, no toe overlap with large fenders (even on my wifes XS 26" bike) and on my specific frame, the ability to put on rather wide tires up to close to 3"--are still the reasons I'm happy with 26.
While there are still lots of great tire choices out there, some of the latest touring tires are not available in 26, only in 27.5 , so this is a bit of a shame, but there you go.

[Bmblbzzz]

I'd guess the first 559 tourers came from one of the American manufacturers probably also in the 1930s, maybe earlier. Probably not Schwinn, they used a different size I think.

“1930's Schwinn introduced the fat tire, spring fork, streamline Excelsior, designed to take the abuse of teenage boys, which was the proto-mountain bike. The Schwinn Excelsior frames became the model for the early mountain bikes almost fifty years later”. https://www.ibike.org/library/history-timeline.htm

An eBay auction
“Auction is for two 26" x 2.125" Tires. These Tires were used on Prewar and Post war Deluxe Ballooner Bikes, Like: Shelby, Schwinns, Dayton / Huffman, Hawthorne, Monark, Columbia, Colson, and Elgin etc.”

Thorn began as a company in 1995 with the 700c Club Tour. Not sure when they began producing 26” bikes. I have a 1994 26” Roberts with triple bottle bosses and rack mounts.

Unfortunately nothing there or in the classiccycleus.com link from ibike.org specifies the wheel size. Sheldon says Schwinn preferred a 571 size, but that might have been only certain models. 26" x 2.125" could be 559 or could be some other 26". But I reckon 1930s seems likely.

[nsew]

Yep. As well as toe overlap and lower gearing 26 have other significant benefits for all terrain touring. Practically indestructible wheels is an obvious one, a doddle to build up, better acceleration out of tight corners, from the off etc. Improved acceleration means being better able to keep the bike rolling while moving slowly on rough ground. Bottom line, it’s a wheel size you can have a lot of fun on. Thoughts on availability - Continental still produce a whole range of 559 tyres - they’re everywhere I’ve looked while travelling. 559 is also a common E-bike size - the durable Marathons are everywhere. I don’t feel like I need a huge choice of tyres for touring.

[PH]

The current issue of Cycle uses the word 'bikepacking' many times with no mention whatsoever of any other forms of cycle-camping.

It's very limiting to consider touring only involves camping, it's a far wider activity, as the current edition of Cycle shows:
Cover "Urban Touring..."
Pg 1, features " Rough stuff touring from Lowestoft..."
I'm not going through the whole magazine, but the idea that touring isn't described as such is simply not true.
To me, it isn't touring V's bikepacking, it's all touring, bikepacking just being one style.

[nsew]

I'd guess the first 559 tourers came from one of the American manufacturers probably also in the 1930s, maybe earlier. Probably not Schwinn, they used a different size I think.

“1930's Schwinn introduced the fat tire, spring fork, streamline Excelsior, designed to take the abuse of teenage boys, which was the proto-mountain bike. The Schwinn Excelsior frames became the model for the early mountain bikes almost fifty years later”. https://www.ibike.org/library/history-timeline.htm

An eBay auction
“Auction is for two 26" x 2.125" Tires. These Tires were used on Prewar and Post war Deluxe Ballooner Bikes, Like: Shelby, Schwinns, Dayton / Huffman, Hawthorne, Monark, Columbia, Colson, and Elgin etc.”

Thorn began as a company in 1995 with the 700c Club Tour. Not sure when they began producing 26” bikes. I have a 1994 26” Roberts with triple bottle bosses and rack mounts.

Unfortunately nothing there or in the classiccycleus.com link from ibike.org specifies the wheel size. Sheldon says Schwinn preferred a 571 size, but that might have been only certain models. 26" x 2.125" could be 559 or could be some other 26". But I reckon 1930s seems likely.

They’re definitely 559’s. It was an American standard from the 30’s onward and the reason the first MTB designers adopted it because the size was commonly available. They were racing on Schwinns (Fat Tyre Flyers) and the like before building up their own frames. Schwalbe named the current Nobby Nic in homage to the original Uniroyal Nobby 26x2.25 (57-559)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schwalbe-Nobby ... B08X1D72LF

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ ... 1695621056

[Sweep]

Happy to see there are still some fans of 26inch - maybe it will survive despite its much heralded demise.
Another advantage - my 26 inch tourer is the only one where I have managed to fit the big Trangia bottle (in a bike buddy) on the underside of the downtube without clashing with the front wheel/guards - all my 700 bikes will only hold the smaller bottle.

[nsew]

26” (559) wheels have been around for almost 100 years. There are millions of 26” bikes out there that need tyres and rims. The kids want 29ers with discs or they don’t want a bike. When you race the wee tykes from a standstill on their knobbly 29ers, they’re about 20 metres behind you before they get going and their tyres are too slow to catch up. OK so they’re about 11 and you’re a grown man but a win is a win.

The first mountain bikes. 1940s Schwinns.